Are my batteries shot
mountainman
Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭
I have 208 amp hrs 12 volt in rv full charged.1.27 sg 12.8 volts If I run my 9.5 amp furnace 15 mins my voltage drops to 11.5 turn off the furnace back to 12.4. in an hour or so back to 12.8
2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion
Comments
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Not sounding good.....Need more info....
how old is the battery?
what are the ambient temps the batt is situated in?
how is it charged? type and capacity of charger.
Have you ever Equalized the batt.?
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
208 Ah 12 volt battery? That is massive.
Should go more than 15 minutes I would hope. 9.5 amps at 12 volts or 120 volts?First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries -
2 6 volt golf cart Batterys are less than a year old.12 volts rv furnace around 40 degrees f. 400 watts at 22 amps solar. 35 amps on generator to 14.8 volts. I equalize when sg varies by .005. after a full charge for about 3 hrs2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
I Equilize On 6 amps2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
The batteries should have little voltage drop with a 9.5 amp load, I have a 200Ah 12V monoblock which gets a daily load of 80A for 9 minutes total, espresso machine, the voltage sags to 11.9 to 12 V recovers to 12.5V, done this every day for over 2 years without change. Something is not right, the SG indicates full charge but capacity is down, perhaps plate damage from over equalization ??, based on 0.005 difference between EQ, Trojan recommend EQ when differences of > 0.030 in SG. How frequently dose this translate in terms of days and at what voltage?1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS
Second system 1890W 3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.
5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding. -
Certainly sounds like something not right. Does the bank have trouble with other loads? I'm wondering if the problem could be a problem with the furnace, such as gummed up fan bearings?Off-grid.
Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter -
I meant to ssay. .050 between cells buttons seem to be sticking. I equalize at 15.5 volts a couple times each month. Gonna try testing with a different load.
2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
I think it may be possible that your batteries are stored in a cold location with the furnace showing 40F. The furnace bearings also may not like 40F and create a lot of friction.
My trailers furnace was noisy and had "permanently lubed" bearings which means that users can not readily lube the bearings when the factory lubrication fails...which it will. I took mine apart and never got it put it back together again. It was not made to be worked on.
Battery output at 40F is much lower than 70F. On the bright side, cooler temperatures are ultimately very favorable for long term battery life. However....it will not seem that way when using a battery in cold temperatures.First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries -
I've done more battery testing 2 car headlight bulbs 7.3 amps 85 watts 1 hr on a 45 degree day.down to 11.96 volts. Unhooked 12.28. I started with full charge.Also checked my furnace 9.6 amps batteries are 10 months old I use 75 to 80 amp hours per day.always stay above 50%soc.I think I need to see my battery man? Any other ideas?2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
Just a comment, I do not see anywhere in your thread that you measure accurately 100% Soc or even 90%.
Are you really charging them and is your hydrometer accurate?
An EQ will do very little if the battery has lost capacity from chronic undercharging.
Might be time for a trip to Costco"we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
htps://offgridsolar1.com/
E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net -
Yea maybe some trogens. Hadn't thought about my hydro being off. In my first post i stated 12.8 volts sg 1.27 sg 100% charge. The voltage drop was what ive been concerned with. I'm gonna fully charge on grid . Run 3 head lites 10.8 amps run the battery down to 10.5 volts and time it I should get a little over 7 hrs x10.8= 75 amp hrs. My batteries spec 75% at 45f. then check sg with a different hydrometer. Wait 12 hrs and check Voltage 11.90 50% soc sg 1.190. Is there a better way to check capacity?
2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
It would appear they have already failed the load test, based on information provided, doing the suggested load test to 10.5V would be akin to flogging the dead horse. If time and grid allows, I would suggest leaving them on charge/float for an extended time, around a week, carefully monitoring voltage, temperature and current, this would allow the capacity to reach its maximum, whatever that may be. Having to perform an EQ twice a month due to SG drift would indicate, to me at least, that the charging regime may have been insufficient, perhaps this is something that needs to be addressed in order to recover the batteries you have, or prevent the same happening to the replacements, should they be needed. Providing information of charge controller type, voltage settings, bulk/absorb times, float voltage etcetera, would be helpful, there may be something you overlooked that others may see.1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS
Second system 1890W 3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.
5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding. -
Yes I agree 10 months and my batteries are toast. I'm for now using 2 12 volt group 27 starting batteries. I never have taken the batterys below 1.17 sg!! As far as charging 4 100 watt 5.29 imp 18.9 vmp. 70 ft on 8awg from panels to a 30 amp pwm 14.6 absorb for 2 hrs. float 13.8 auto eq 28 days at 14.8 volts for 2 hrs. From day 1 my golf cart batteries never had the same voltage 6.3 and 6.5 but 1.27 on all cells. And fully charged would drop instantly to 12.4 with a 10 amp load. The starting batteries I'm now using
Drop to 12.6?. I manually eguilized when one or more cells were 0.050 lower which happened once or twice a month. After fully charging To eq I use the 10 amp setting on a car charger. I know that's not the best way. checking the amps with my multimeter shows 6 amps 3% of my bank at (16 VOLTS. for 2 hrs COULD BE THE PROBLEM.) On cloudy days I charge on 35 amp setting until voltage reaches 14.8. I have never had to add water to the batteries. They are used outside unprotected from 0 f to 100 f. also had a panel stop producing amps but still produced full voltage at 8 months old.2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
Panels producing voltage with no amps are really quite a problem to troubleshoot. I have four solar banks so may be more experienced than I seem....in some ways.First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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I noticed lowered amps so short circuit tested each panel found one dead sent it in for testing.They replaced it. But they couldn't give me an answer of why or what happened.2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
mountainman said:I noticed lowered amps so short circuit tested each panel found one dead sent it in for testing.They replaced it. But they couldn't give me an answer of why or what happened.First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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Yes, there are some tell tale items showing in your post:
1. I have never had to add water to the batteries...... this tells us there has not been a good charge or an EQ achieved... EQ is identified by a need to add water monthly or so...
2.checking the amps with my multimeter shows 6 amps.... from panels that should be putting out 10 Amps+...tells us you may have a poor connection in the wiring or the wire may be too small for the distance.
Have you retorqued all your wiring connections since first assembled?
Struck part of #2 as noted below, those values were for a 110 AC charger. additions in bold
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Westbrance coming out my cc I've seen 24 amps and 344 watts with loads on. I use a car battery charger to equalize 6 amps at 16 volts.2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
Soft down really?2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
Corrected previous post about 110V charger..
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Ive found out from volt drop calculator 10% drop on my 8 awg cable I'm gonna fix that before putting in new batteries. Any suggestions for a battery charger that won't break my pocket2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
Yes Ive checked connections but if I'm not losing water. seems as I'm not getting enough charge. Some one suggested my hydrometers off.2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
When you get your replacements batts. tell the vendor you want new batteries with matched manufacture dates, to the day if possible, and that they be fully charged and equal SGs on all cells. If not get them to do an EQ charge. have them record the SG on all cells and have that noted on the bill of sale. A knowledgeable vendor will be able to do the tests, if not go elsewhere...
Charger: you need to have a charger that will put out ~ 10% or more of the battery Ahr rating, at the recommended EQ Voltage. In winter if you need to EQ, the standard recommendation is to run the generator or charger before sunup if possible so that the BULK phase is complete and ABSORB has started when the sun rises and then just let the PV finish the EQ. Bsically only the mid to highend chargers have an EQ ability, Not usually available at a auto-supply store.
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Lack of need for watering is related to voltage. Late stage absorb and all EQs should cause some gassing in flooded batteries. The gassing is what causes the need to add water. If not gassing, that's a sign absorb voltage and/or EQ voltage is too low and/or too short.
Both Vabs and Veq voltages are temperature sensitive, requiring higher voltages at lower temps. OF to 100f is a large range, so temp compensation in controller/charger is important in your situation. Temp also affects how SGs should be interpreted.Off-grid.
Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter -
Running high voltage/low amperage from series wired panels to your controller will fix your voltage drop problem. Need an MPPT controller to do this though. I'm not seeing what controller you have.
2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.
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Cheap pwm cc all panels in parallel2kw array 6 345 q cells make sky blue 60 cc
6 230ah GC @36 volts
18 amp accusense charger. 3650 champion -
There are some fairly inexpensive REAL MPPT controllers on the market. Should take care of your voltage drop problem and, as a bonus, gain you better production from your existing array
2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.
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this is the forums sponsors store and the show 238 Residential MPPT charge controllers, you might give them a call to shorten the list for you. I have found the prices pretty good for what I have bought ... I think something in the MidNite KID 30 A class / size would work well for you.
https://www.solar-electric.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?cat=722&q=mppt+charge+controller+12v
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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