Tesla reaches halfway point of construction on 'world's biggest' 100-megawatt battery array.

Tumi
Tumi Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭
in In the Weeds--Member's Choice #1
 source:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-29/elon-musk-tesla-world-biggest-battery-reaches-halfway-mark/9001542?pfmredir=sm
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  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Reading it, one realizes that the project is primarily a diesel generator installation with a little bit of battery.  

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

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  • Tumi
    Tumi Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭
    edited September 2017 #3
    jonr said:
    Reading it, one realizes that the project is primarily a diesel generator installation with a little bit of battery.  
    Its primary role is to store renewable energy and buffer Neoen's 315MW wind farm. The diesel generation is only there for the summer since the wind farm is only about roughly 90% complete. 

    The battery bank capacity is comparable to the generation of a gas turbine power plant. 
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  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017 #4
    Typical gas turbine over 4 hours - ~1000 MWh.   This battery bank, 129 MWh.

    > 315MW wind, 129 MWh battery

    So when wind and batteries are complete, they can store a whopping 25 minutes of wind output.    My guess is that this is just enough to fire up some other capacity (yep, ~20 min for gas turbines).   Useful, but not a solution to avoiding fossil fuel use.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Is it really about avoiding fossil fuel use?

    The voters / utility consumers hear "renewables ... blah blah blah, better reliability, yada yada, Musk will deliver or it's free". Musk press is "worlds biggest battery blah blah blah". It probably is technically useful, but it seems like a win/win as a PR exercise.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    In the region's sun rich environment, it might be the buffer needed on a daily basis to get through the early evening hours of heavy use.

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Tumi
    Tumi Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭
    edited October 2017 #7
    jonr said:
    Typical gas turbine over 4 hours - ~1000 MWh.   This battery bank, 129 MWh.

    So when wind and batteries are complete, they can store a whopping 25 minutes of wind output.    My guess is that this is just enough to fire up some other capacity.   Useful, but not a solution to avoiding fossil fuel use.
    There is no typical gas turbine power plant, They are built to scale to suit the load. 

    Obviously I'm not referencing a 1000MWH gas turbine power plant. The batteries are rated for 100MWH. It's rated equivalent would then be a 100MWH gas turbine plant.  In many areas these are used as speaker plants, and as base in others. But that what is being replaced with this battery pack.

    But you are kinda missing the big picture here bud. The batteries are not they primary source of power, it is a buffer to enable the adjoining Wind farm as storage capacity to make sure renewables can deliver 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It destroys the "it only works when the wind is blowing" talking point.

    The battery has been designed to help cover temporary dips in wind power, say for  an hour if the demand from this source is the full 100MW, to help control frequency on the grid at times when gas-fired plants are unable to help balance generation and power demand.

    The expected outcome is that the backup battery storage will be capable of providing enough power for more than 30,000 South Australian homes roughly equal to the number of homes that lost power during the blackouts

    that means the battery project is an add-on to South Australia's energy capacity, particularly throughout heatwaves, blackouts and peak hours.


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  • Tumi
    Tumi Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭
    #8
    Estragon said:
    Is it really about avoiding fossil fuel use?

    The voters / utility consumers hear "renewables ... blah blah blah, better reliability, yada yada, Musk will deliver or it's free". Musk press is "worlds biggest battery blah blah blah". It probably is technically useful, but it seems like a win/win as a PR exercise.
    It's not about avoiding fossil fuels in this case, it's about buffering the shortcomings of traditional methods of load balancing, and intermittent renewables and providing instantaneous backup. 
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  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    It's a point that is often missed.  To make solar or wind work well, you need short and long term backups.  Making it far more expensive than a simple $/Kwh would imply.    Without these backups, "it only works when..." is accurate.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

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  • Tumi
    Tumi Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭
    edited October 2017 #10
    jonr said:
    It's a point that is often missed.  To make solar or wind work well, you need short and long term backups.  Making it far more expensive than a simple $/Kwh would imply.    Without these backups, "it only works when..." is accurate.
    That is an accurate statement. The industry is at a point where markets are becoming interested in grid tied storage, there are so many idea out there on how to accomplish this. Lithium battery banks, like Tesla.

    Molten silicon storage. 
    http://1414degrees.com.au

    Fly wheel storage
    http://amberkinetics.com

    Underwater concrete spheres that spin a turbine when they fill with water, and then pumps in air displacing the water with excess power
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/german-institute-successfully-tests-underwater-energy-storage-sphere/

    Liquid batteries developed by the US Army. 
    http://www.wbur.org/bostonomix/2017/01/09/vanadium-liquid-energy-storage

    Pumped hydro electric. 
    https://energy.gov/eere/water/pumped-storage-hydropower

    Converting old mine shafts into pumped hydro stations. 
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-03-17/german-coal-mine-to-be-reborn-as-giant-pumped-hydropower-battery


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