Pulse Battery Maintenance Devices

kevinjones
kevinjones Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭✭

Comments

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They don't hurt the battery , and there have been some reports of bad interaction with MPPT charge controllers being fooled by the pulse voltages
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • kevinjones
    kevinjones Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭✭
    Thanks much Mike.

    @BB. and @Photowhit: I'd sure like to hear input from you guys on this.


  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    edited January 2017 #4
    I really do not have much to add what Mike said. If batteries are already failing, I am hard pressed to say it will add life back.

    I personally have not used one, but don't think they really help much, if at all.

    But there are folks that swear by them.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had a version that was used power it collected from a solar panel, I don't think it did anything to hurt the battery and might have helped, I was torturing 4 golf cart batteries, drawing them down below 50% each day over the summer for 4 years, air conditioning. The batteries were already 1 year old so lasted 5 years.

    It's very hard to determine if something like this works as intended. I hadn't thought about it until I saw your post. I'm having some issues with a poisoned ell on my forklift battery that's only 5 years old. I should attach a couple and see if they help maintain specific gravity in that cell.

    Bottom line is I honestly don't know. Haven't hook them up to my current system. I believe one of the remanufacturing processes for forklift batteries is based on the same principle, to run a specific frequency pulse through the battery, but on a much grander scale. My thinking is that it might work better as a preventative than a cure, but just thinking, I have no evidence that they do anything...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    I use them.  Specifically the Pulsetech units, the *original* designers, although my models are recent issue.  

    I don't use them to revive trash, but to keep good batteries healthy.  The important thing to remember is that these guys were the originals, from which spawned all the imitators, who use a different algo to avoid patent issues - some of which are damaging high-voltage pulsing, not the low-voltage type Pulsetech uses.

    I have noticed better results on some of my friends batteries which I volunteered to test, but always kept in mind that merely properly charging batteries will get results.  When I included the pulsetech along with my normal chargers, results were much better.  However, like any anonymous internet post - it is good to be skeptical.  Perhaps an independent *LAB* report, something which most everybody wants, but didn't know existed, or just assumed was done by a marketing shill should be made available.  It has.  A long time ago.

    One thing NONE of the imitators have done is provided scientific studies from independent labs, something which the military demanded.  See the "Malinsky" reports at the bottom of the page here.  The long report contains the most pertinent data.  The Professor from Ohio U and his lab data are quite interesting.  Look up what Prof Malinsky does today.  This guy is for real, and is not a marketing dweeb.

    http://www.xtremecharge.com/XtremeCatalog

    You won't find reports like this from the imitators over the years.  I use mine on charge naturally, but also just as important, but frequently overlooked, is using them on discharge as well.  Thing is, my main use is NOT for desulfation believe it or not.  Desulfation is a secondary result, but of course is the most marketable.

    The report covers why.  Quite frankly, without those reports, I would have lumped this thing in with all the other hacks out there.  These reports were done about 17 years ago.

    If you do use this thing, stick to the reports, and not pie-in-the-sky consumer testimonials (both pro and con), that think this thing's primary purpose is to bring back zombie trash batteries to perfection.

    I don't have an MPPT controller, and yes, if you place an AM radio near one, you'll definitely hear the pulses.  My PWM CC's, and my own chargers don't seem to mind since the energy is sinked into the battery, and not the attached devices.  Reports of it interfering with mppt's may just be guesswork from a well-intended naysayer.  (most likely being disappointed with all the other junk that gets cast into the same pulse category.)

    Check the report FIRST, and see if it is something you may want to try.

  • kevinjones
    kevinjones Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭✭
    PNjunction, Hey thanks much for the detailed message.  I will read the material.
  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #8
    One thing that is important is that the Pulsetech / Malinsky report with x-ray diffraction, electron microscopy and such from Prof Malinsky et al, is that it is coming from an electrochemical background, and not from a radio / audio / hobbiest viewpoint.

    A little history - my own studies of LiFeP04 degradation problems led me to research secondary reactions, passivating layers, and so forth that can kill a cell.  This lead me BACK into the field of lead-acid, and to see what I could find along those lines that might be similar.

    Lo and behold - the ALABC with PCL 1/2/3 modes of problems, specifically the passivation layer!  That is, the microscopic layer that can exist between a plate and the electrolyte itself.  AHA! 

    To make a long story short, the Pulsetech guys - the originators with the electrochemical lab reports, is dealing with reducing the passivating layer to allow current to reach sulfate crystals in the first place for recharging.  Some labs call it "micro stirring".  This reduction in the passivating layers has additional benefits, but no need to go into it here as it is covered elsewhere.  The layer is increased merely by undercharging a Pb batt.

    In contrast, the follower-on pulser products over the years seems to look at it from a radio / audio enthusiasts standpoint, not understanding the electrochemical passivation process.  Maybe they read the original Solargizer / Carl E. Gali patents too quickly.

    What the other manufacturers with radio and audio engineering backgrounds key on is sulfate "crystals".  And whether it is radio frequencies, or audio frequencies, the answer seems clear to them - RESONANCE to break up a crystal.  A wide variety of either magic RF or audio frequencies are generated in an attempt to attack the crystals directly.  But that is the wrong answer electrochemically.  Nice guess though - seems logical enough to a radio or audio guy. 

    Since I have an RF background, I would have made the same knee-jerk conclusion had I not studied failure modes in LFP first, and dabbled a bit with agm PCL issues pointing me in the right *electrochemical* direction of passivation layers and secondary reactions. 

    The wide contrast between the Pulsetech electrochemical study, from a valid source, and those from later products from engineers that seemed to have more of a radio / audio background, rather than electrochemical background, convinced me to try the Pulsetech.  So far so good.

     Again though - in these days of anonymous internet banter, one must decide for themselves.  And not get disappointed if it won't turn a dumpster-dive battery into gold. :) 

  • Mangas
    Mangas Solar Expert Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #9
    I disconnected mine several years ago. 

    Interested to hear what the mppt and FLA manufacturers have to say about them.

    Ranch Off Grid System & Custom Home: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF Custom House Construction, all appliances, Central A/C, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Propane furnaces, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
  • DConlyGuy
    DConlyGuy Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭
    i watched a few videos by TheKilog69 on you tube and ill have to say the desulfater he used seemed to really clean up his battterys
    600 watts of solar panels,Epever 30 mppt , 2 PWHR12500W4FR battery's in 24 volt setup
  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    It certainly seemed to do something.  I can only comment on the originator, Pulsetech.  There are a lot of differing algorithms out there, that's for sure.  Some of the companies have come and gone.

    I think Lee Hart of EVDL list fame said it best (he is anti-pulser btw) when he said that all of us already have a desulphator - it's called a charger! :)  But when I read deeper into the EVDL archive posts - guess what - he was trying out some benchtop hack circuit found on the web, and not something from a company with a proper background behind it.

    No battery manufacturer in their right mind would ever recommend a 3rd party product other than a charger - given that all sorts of wacky stuff is out there.  In fact one goes to say that basically the cure could be worse than the cause!  I would agree if one doesn't choose wisely.

    But I will say that IF one is thinking about using one of these things, why not try the original that has been with us since early 1990's?  And the only one that the US Military uses - demanding more than just a "trust us" from a manufacturer and demanded a validated lab report.  That's what the Malinsky report provided to them.  In fact, if you are a military procurer, you already know the channels in which to obtain this stuff.  Pulsetech's main customer is the military in fact.

    I thought it might be bunk, but sure enough military NSN procurement numbers, forms, and a dedicated military support team exist at Pulsetech.  None of the copy-cats have this.

    This is kind of why any pulse unit threads go so quickly off the rails - mainly because the talk centers around too many differing products.  I'd say if you are going to try them, try the original (Pulsetech) first.