should i add another string of batteries
ldiorio
Solar Expert Posts: 48 ✭✭
i am running a 48v system with a magnum 240v inverter and 3060 watts of Panels(12) and 8 DC400-6 fullriver batteries (415AH)
am ranging from 6.2KWH to 11.5 KWH over the past few months
am running a well pump,boiler,freezer, 2 refrig, dehumidifier and some misc lights. i set the level of discharge to 25%
what i am finding is that the batteries get fully charged at about noon time--ihave consdidered a dump load for water heating--but am thing ing i should add --the existing batteries are 2 years old another string of batteries for add'l capacity
looking for some opinions and suggestions
lou
am ranging from 6.2KWH to 11.5 KWH over the past few months
am running a well pump,boiler,freezer, 2 refrig, dehumidifier and some misc lights. i set the level of discharge to 25%
what i am finding is that the batteries get fully charged at about noon time--ihave consdidered a dump load for water heating--but am thing ing i should add --the existing batteries are 2 years old another string of batteries for add'l capacity
looking for some opinions and suggestions
lou
Comments
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What are you trying to accomplish? Does the system meet your needs? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
--vtMaps
4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i -
would like to add capacity for days of no sun
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ldiorio said:would like to add capacity for days of no sun
Also, you will need more solar panels... What you have now will result in a 5% charge rate if you add another string of batteries. After 3 or 4 days of no sun, you will need more than 5% if you are ever to get them charged up again.
--vtMaps
4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i -
tks vtmaps for the advice-i can wire and install anything -but have a problem- putting my arms around all the caculations and formulas---need someone to set me straight before i make a wrong move
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We typically run with 1-3 days of storage, with 50% maximum discharge (under normal usage) for longer battery life. For various reasons, with Lead Acid batteries, 2 days of storage and 50% maximum discharge usually works out as an "optimum choice".
So a 415 AH @ 48 volt battery bank would be optimum for cloudy day / overnight discharge of:- 415 AH * 48 volts * 0.85 inverter eff * 1/2 days of storage * 0.50 maximum discharge = 4,233 Watt*Hours (storage per day)
Charging wise, we suggest 5% to 13% rate of charge, with 10% or more if you are full time off grid. You can go higher rate of charge (especially with AGM, but you tend to fill up the bank pretty quickly--And should use remote battery temperature sensor to help prevent battery over heating, especially if >13% rate of charge).
If you double the battery bank to 830 AH @ 48 volts with a 5% to 13% rate of charge from solar panels:- 830 AH * 59 volt charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.05 rate of charge = 3,180 Watt array minimum
- 830 AH * 59 volt charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.10 rate of charge = 6,360 Watt array nominal
- 830 AH * 59 volt charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.13 rate of charge = 8,268 Watt array "cost effective" maximum
http://solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-irradiance.html
\Your November through January sun is not great--So, if you wanted to (in average weather) to size the array for "break even" month of December, and wanted 8.4 kWH per day:North Providence Rhode Island
Measured in kWh/m2/day onto a solar panel set at a 48° angle from Vertical:
Average Solar Insolation figures
(For best year-round performance)
If you want 8.4 kWH in deep winter:Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun 3.33
3.97
4.61
4.67
4.93
5.04
Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 5.04
5.01
4.76
4.31
3.24
2.98
- 8,400 WH per day * 1/0.52 off grid system eff * 1/2.98 hours of sun per day (ave December) = 5,421 Watt array minimum (December "break even" month)
And if you look at the 9 month minimum (non-winter), it would produce:- 6,360 Watt array * 0.52 off grid AC system eff * 3.97 Hours of Sun (February) = 13,130 Watt*Hours per day (~9 months of the year)
Anyway--That is how I rough out the math. Questions/corrections to my guesses?
-Bill
Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
vtmaps said:ldiorio said:would like to add capacity for days of no sun
Also, you will need more solar panels... What you have now will result in a 5% charge rate if you add another string of batteries. After 3 or 4 days of no sun, you will need more than 5% if you are ever to get them charged up again.
--vtMaps
Agree on all counts.
At two years for the old batteries, I would only consider adding if a true capacity test came up close to 100% of rated. Even then, you WILL degrade your new batteries. It's a question of how much - not "if." With that particular L16 (one of my favorites) you might get acceptable results from a battery lifespan perspective.
But the resulting lower charge rate will hurt you when you actually use that new battery capacity - because the batteries will spend more time in a partially discharged state - because it takes longer to charge back to 100%. That is the formula for premature sulfation and a shortened battery lifespan
With oversized battery banks, you will need some generator run time to boost the batteries back up to where the PV can finish charging. With the DC400-6, you can charge at a 20%-25% rate without any problems.
I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life. -
"I set the level of discharge to 25%." What does this mean?
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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