Help in Ridgecrest California?

pacog · July 2016

Hey guys I am wondering if there is anyone in the Ridgecrest Ca. Area that would be willing to help me get my off grid system dialed in? Send me a message and we can work out the details. Thanks in advance,Chris.

Dave Angelini · July 2016

I have Military relatives in Ridgecrest. Getting a bit toasty down there today!

raysubtropical · July 2016

I grew up in rocket town and wherry housing....currently located in N. san diego county and off grid for past 12yrs....how can we be of help?

pacog · July 2016

RaysSubtropical, Thanks for the response? You have any experience with the Midnite Solar Classic and Classic Lite controllers? Trying to figure out how to set up the classics to properly charge and maintain my Bank. Thinks again for your time.

mike95490 · July 2016

To get the voltage and absorb times dialed in on the classic, using a hydrometer to monitor the battery state of charge. You really need to understand the needs of the battery to stay healthy, and how to balance absorb volts and float volts to reduce water consumption - without going dark in winter. I reprogram my controllers for summer and winter season, because of different needs.

pacog · July 2016

Mike, Thanks for the response. I am using AGM batteries so don't think a hydometer will work? I am in the process of getting a clamp meter. Hopefully that will work? Good to know about the seasonal needs as well.

Vic · July 2016

Hi pacog,

Also, if you do not have the MidNite WhizBang Jr battery current sensing accessory for the Classics, it should help you follow the battery charge currents. It keeps track of Ah into and out of the battery, shows Net Ah, and can approximate Remaining battery Capacity, as well as allowing ending Absorb based on current flowing into the battery (Shunt EA).

The WBjr will need a Shunt, as well, if your system does not have one at this point. WBjr and Shunt shown is this Link:
http://www.solar-electric.com/midnite-solar-whiz-bang-jr-current-sense-module.html

Here is a Link to the MidNite Forum:
http://www.midniteforum.com/

Many members here use Classics as well. A DC Clamp meter is also a very useful tool, especially if you have multiple battery strings. Vic

BB. · July 2016

And you are correct... AGM are sealed batteries and very difficult to get an SG reading from (i.e., use a refractometer and a drop of electrolyte sample from an, usually, sealed cap).

-Bill

pacog · July 2016

Vic, Thanks for the response. I have a Magnum energy , me-bmk battery monitor kit and a Me-rc, to control and monitor my MS2812. Would i still need the Wbjr? I have a 500amp shunt already.

BB. · July 2016

The WBjr is a circuit board designed to be bolted directly to the shunt. You need to look up the dimensions/compatible shunts to know if yours will work or not.

-Bill

Vic · July 2016

pacog said:

Vic, Thanks for the response. I have a Magnum energy , me-bmk battery monitor kit and a Me-rc, to control and monitor my MS2812. Would i still need the Wbjr? I have a 500amp shunt already.

pacog,

Am not familiar with the me-bmk monitor. If you do not desire to use End Amps allowing the Classics to end the Absorb stage based on battery current, then you may not need the WBjr.

The Wbjr can share a single. common Shunt with other battery monitoring devices, and a 500A, 50 mV Shunt is the Default that eh WBjr uses. Just parallel the shunt connections that go to the Magnum bmk, with the PBC contacts on the WBjr PBC. The only issue might be, as BB Bill noted, might be weather the WBjr board will fit onto the Shunt, and also weather there is room around the Shunt for the WBjr board.

FWIW, Vic

pacog · July 2016

Why is this Feature not integrated into the Classics already, would seem to be something the charge controller should be able to do already? More stuff to buy i Guess. I'm pretty sure my Shunt will work but will Measure it tomorrow. I should have plenty of room. Does it work with multiple Classics or in follow me mode?

Vic · July 2016

pacog said:

Why is this Feature not integrated into the Classics already, would seem to be something the charge controller should be able to do already? More stuff to buy i Guess. I'm pretty sure my Shunt will work but will Measure it tomorrow. I should have plenty of room. Does it work with multiple Classics or in follow me mode?

Hi pacog,

Much of the WBjr IS integrated into the Classic CCs, AND that is the reason that it is SO inexpensive. One reason that all of these kinds of accessories are not all built-in to many of our Solar widgets, is that many of us use multiples of things like MidNite Classics. So, in your case with two, or more Classics you will not need to pay for two of these when buying the Classics, if it was built-in.

YES only one WBjr will be needed when you are charging a single battery, and the WBjr works well in Follow-Me.

It is just my opinion, but I think that the WBjr is a real deal, at less than $50.00.

In comparison, here is what Magnum wants for the BMK ,,:
http://www.solar-electric.com/magnum-energy-battery-monitor-kit-no-shunt.html

Think that MidNite is being very fair with the price of the WB.

BUT, you may not really need the WBjr, if you do not want to end Absorb by using Shunt EA on the Classics.

Just my opinions, Vic

pacog · July 2016

I had all the Magnum Energy products before i purchased my first Classic 200. Well i have the Classic attached to my shunt right now. So can i use the EA function or do i need the WBjr to preform this function?

Vic · July 2016

pacog,

The only point that I was trying to make by comparing the Magnum BMK with the MidNite WBjr, is that the BMK is about $165, and the WB is about $48, and they perform similar functions, in general.

The WBjr mounts onto the two Sense Lead terminals of the Shunt. The connections that the Classic CCs are presently connected to, are the CC battery Negative, and perhaps the PV Negatives.

YES, if you want the added functionality that the WBjr provides, (like Shunt EA), you will need the WBjr.

Please let us know how you are doing with your battery charge parameters. Vic

Marc Kurth · July 2016

Pacog,

Understanding where your end amps are is an important indication of charging progress - and is critical to help avoid sulfation. Different manufacturers have their own specs on this. Depending upon which AGM's you have, the numbers are all over the place.

In trouble shooting AGM battery banks, one of the first things that I ask is:
"What is the current draw at the correct absorb voltage when you think the battery bank is fully charged."
Or worded differently:
"What is the current draw when the system drops into Float?"

Without an easy path to measuring SG, this is one important piece of information!

Marc

Vic · July 2016

pacog,

Would you mind telling us exactly what batteries you are running, and, any string configuration info, system voltage, etc. You may find someone here that is using the same battery, and will have advice for you.

Resting battery voltage is usually a good indication of battery State Of Charge (SOC). A Rested battery is one that has NOT been charged or discharged at all, for six or more hours (in general).

Normally, parallel strings of batteries are not recommended, but if you had two strings of batteries in parallel, you might be able to use a battery selector switch to Rest one string while still using the other. This switching will not work well on a 48 V system, but could be OK on 12 and 24 V battery systems (with some limits).

AGM batteries generally to not behave well when run with parallel strings, as they are very low impedance, and usually will not share currents well (ie one string can hog much of the charge current, for example).

Thanks for any added detail that you can offer. Vic

pacog · July 2016

Well i posted battery info in another thread i started. You guy's already gave me crap(jk) about my plans. 12V system. I am using deka unigy 1, 12v 170ah batteries. I was misinformed when i bought them, guy pretty much lied to me, so i am stuck with them and will have to try and make them work for a least 2 years If possible. That's what you get for not doing your research.

I know many batteries in parallel are not the best configuration but that's what i'm stuck with for now. I have 10 batteries. 4/0 cable equal lenght. Plan on running them in parallel. Have bus bars to help with this.

I have not been pushing the system at this point because i am in the process of putting the 4/0 cable in still. Plus installing a new Classic Lite 150. Running large Loads off my generator right now.

My inverter is a MS2812.

Vic · July 2016

pacog,

Thanks for the info on your batteries ... OH !! Ten 12 V AGM batteries in parallel!

Are these batteries the 12 AVR 100ET ?

I have not followed your comments in other discussions.

It is good that you are investing in large battery interconnecting cables. The Clamp DC Ammeter will help you monitor current balance, and take some corrective actions if you see significant imbalance in battery string current balances.

Many of our systems are not perfect, do the best that you can, that is about the best anyone can do.
Thanks, Vic

pacog · July 2016

Vic and others, Thanks again for your help. Here is the info off the battery sticker.

Part #: 12avr170etver
Float voltage: 13.5 +/-0.06 @25°c
Capacity: 170ah @8hr to 1.75 vpc
Specific gravity:1.3
Conductance:>638 seimens
Impedance:<5.363 milliohms
Internal resistance<6.63 milliohms

vtmaps · July 2016

pacog said:
Impedance:<5.363 milliohms
Internal resistance<6.63 milliohms

How can the impedance be less than the resistance? --vtMaps

mike95490 · July 2016

impedance is AC resistance, and without the frequency the impedance is measured at, it's a worthless number

vtmaps · July 2016

mike95490 said:

impedance is AC resistance, and without the frequency the impedance is measured at, it's a worthless number

I am clear on that, but at any frequency it cannot be less than the DC resistance. I assume (but could be wrong) that there is a standard way to measure battery impedance and that it is not necessary to specify frequency.

--vtMaps

Marc Kurth · July 2016

Seems a moot point when the real world variation can be +/- 20% to 35% from the published data per battery model.

pacog · July 2016

Vtmaps, i only Published what was on the battery sticker info. I'm a newb when it comes to the solar World.

BB. · July 2016

It is possible that resistance includes "chemical action" (i.e., voltage drop due to chemical to electrical conversion with "looks like resistance").

Impedance would include the "capacitance" effects of the stacked +/- plates inside the battery and no electro-chemical reactions. Which could be lower than the DC resistance (internal bus + plate grid + electro-chemical voltage drops).

Just a guess. And it does sort of have electrical significance--The DC current used by a single phase AC inverter is really a 120 Hz "sine squared" wave form (plus AC chargers and solar charge controllers can also have various non-steady state wave forms).

But as Marc says--The numbers are not that different from each other (within mfg. tolerance ranges) for our needs.

-Bill

Marc Kurth · July 2016

Vic said:

pacog,
Thanks for the info on your batteries ... OH !!   Ten 12 V AGM batteries in parallel!
Are these batteries the 12 AVR 100ET ?
I have not followed your comments in other discussions.
It is good that you are investing in large battery interconnecting cables.   The Clamp DC Ammeter will help you monitor current balance, and take some corrective actions if you see significant imbalance in battery string current balances.
Many of our systems are not perfect, do the best that you can, that is about the best anyone can do.
Thanks,    Vic

Nicely said!

mike95490 · July 2016

vtmaps said:.I am clear on that, but at any frequency it cannot be less than the DC resistance. .....

--vtMaps

you can get resonance - but not likely in a battery.

Belmont Solar · July 2016

No intention of raining on your parade, especially so soon after discovering the disadvantages of the current battery setup.
If you only have the Classic Lite you will need the Classic display in order to be able to use the WBJR

Belmont Solar · July 2016

Correction: there is one exception: If you are using the local app, then the MNGP display is not required. Although it is still useful and I would not want my system to be without the display.

Vic · July 2016

pacog said:

RaysSubtropical, Thanks for the response? You have any experience with the Midnite Solar Classic and Classic Lite controllers? Trying to figure out how to set up the classics to properly charge and maintain my Bank. Thinks again for your time.

Have read the above Post, as pacog has both MN Classic and a Classic Lite (or perhaps multiples of each).

FWIW, Vic

Help in Ridgecrest California?

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