Help in Ridgecrest California?

pacogpacog Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭
Hey guys I am wondering if there is anyone in the Ridgecrest Ca. Area that would be willing to help me get my off grid system dialed in? Send me a message and we can work out the details. Thanks in advance,Chris.
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Comments

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have Military relatives in Ridgecrest. Getting a bit toasty down there today!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • raysubtropicalraysubtropical Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    I grew up in rocket town and wherry housing....currently located in N. san diego county and off grid for past 12yrs....how can we be of help?
  • pacogpacog Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭
    RaysSubtropical, Thanks for the response? You have any experience with the Midnite Solar Classic and Classic Lite controllers? Trying to figure out how to set up the classics to properly charge and maintain my Bank. Thinks again for your time.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To get the voltage and absorb times dialed in on the classic, using a hydrometer to monitor the battery state of charge.  You really need to understand the needs of the battery to stay healthy, and how to balance absorb volts and float volts to reduce water consumption - without going dark in winter.   I reprogram my controllers for summer and winter season, because of different needs.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • pacogpacog Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭
    Mike, Thanks for the response. I am using AGM batteries so don't think a hydometer will work? I am in the process of getting a clamp meter. Hopefully that will work? Good to know about the seasonal needs as well.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi pacog,

    Also,  if you do not have the MidNite WhizBang Jr battery current sensing accessory for the Classics,  it should help you follow the battery charge currents.   It keeps track of Ah into and out of the battery,  shows Net Ah, and can approximate Remaining battery Capacity,  as well as allowing ending Absorb based on current flowing into the battery (Shunt EA).

    The WBjr will need a Shunt,  as well,  if your system does not have one at this point.  WBjr and Shunt shown is this Link:
    http://www.solar-electric.com/midnite-solar-whiz-bang-jr-current-sense-module.html

    Here is a Link to the MidNite Forum:
    http://www.midniteforum.com/

    Many members here use Classics as well.   A DC Clamp meter is also a very useful tool,  especially if you have multiple battery strings.    Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,823 admin
    And you are correct... AGM are sealed batteries and very difficult to get an SG reading from (i.e., use a refractometer and a drop of electrolyte sample from an, usually, sealed cap).

    -Bill

    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • pacogpacog Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭
    edited July 2016 #9
    Vic, Thanks for the response. I have a Magnum energy , me-bmk battery monitor kit and a Me-rc, to control and monitor my MS2812. Would i still need the Wbjr? I have a 500amp shunt already.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,823 admin
    The WBjr is a circuit board designed to be bolted directly to the shunt. You need to look up the dimensions/compatible shunts to know if yours will work or not.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭
    pacog said:
    Vic, Thanks for the response. I have a Magnum energy , me-bmk battery monitor kit and a Me-rc, to control and monitor my MS2812. Would i still need the Wbjr? I have a 500amp shunt already.

    pacog,

    Am not familiar with the me-bmk monitor.  If you do not desire to use End Amps allowing the Classics to end the Absorb stage based on battery current,  then you may not need the WBjr.

    The Wbjr can share a single.  common Shunt with other battery monitoring devices,  and a 500A,  50 mV Shunt is the Default that eh WBjr uses.  Just parallel the shunt connections that go to the Magnum bmk,  with the PBC contacts on the WBjr PBC.   The only issue might be,  as BB Bill noted,  might be weather the WBjr board will fit onto the Shunt,  and also weather there is room around the Shunt for the WBjr board.

    FWIW,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • pacogpacog Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭
    Why is this Feature not integrated into the Classics already, would seem to be something the charge controller should be able to do already? More stuff to buy i Guess. I'm pretty sure my Shunt will work but will Measure it tomorrow. I should have plenty of room. Does it work with multiple Classics or in follow me mode?
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2016 #13
    pacog said:
    Why is this Feature not integrated into the Classics already, would seem to be something the charge controller should be able to do already? More stuff to buy i Guess. I'm pretty sure my Shunt will work but will Measure it tomorrow. I should have plenty of room. Does it work with multiple Classics or in follow me mode?


    Hi pacog,

    Much of the WBjr IS integrated into the Classic CCs,  AND that is the reason that it is SO inexpensive.  One reason that all of these kinds of accessories are not all built-in to many of our Solar widgets,  is that many of us use multiples of things like MidNite Classics.  So,  in your case with two,  or more Classics you will not need to pay for two of these  when buying the Classics,  if it was built-in.

    YES  only one WBjr will be needed when you are charging a single battery,  and the WBjr works well in Follow-Me.

    It is just my opinion,  but I think that the WBjr is a real deal,  at less than $50.00.

    In comparison,  here is what Magnum wants for the BMK ,,:
    http://www.solar-electric.com/magnum-energy-battery-monitor-kit-no-shunt.html

    Think that MidNite is being very fair with the price of the WB.

    BUT,  you may not really need the WBjr,  if you do not want to end Absorb by using Shunt EA on the Classics.

    Just my opinions,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • pacogpacog Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭
    edited July 2016 #14
    I had all the Magnum Energy products before i purchased my first Classic 200. Well i have the Classic attached to my shunt right now. So can i use the EA function or do i need the WBjr to preform this function?
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭

    pacog,

    The only point that I was trying to make by comparing the Magnum BMK with the MidNite WBjr,  is that the BMK is about $165,  and the WB is about $48,  and they perform similar functions,  in general.

    The WBjr mounts onto the two Sense Lead terminals of the Shunt.  The connections that the Classic CCs are presently connected to,  are the CC battery Negative,  and perhaps the PV Negatives.

    YES,  if you want the added functionality that the WBjr provides,  (like Shunt EA),  you will need the WBjr.

    Please let us know how you are doing with your battery charge parameters.    Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • Marc KurthMarc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 612 ✭✭✭✭
    Pacog,

    Understanding where your end amps are is an important indication of charging progress - and is critical to help avoid sulfation. Different manufacturers have their own specs on this. Depending upon which AGM's you have, the numbers are all over the place.

    In trouble shooting AGM battery banks, one of the first things that I ask is:
    "What is the current draw at the correct absorb voltage when you think the battery bank is fully charged."
    Or worded differently:
    "What is the current draw when the system drops into Float?"

    Without an easy path to measuring SG, this is one important piece of information!

    Marc




    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭

    pacog,

    Would you mind telling us exactly what batteries you are running,  and,  any string configuration info,  system voltage,  etc.  You may find someone here that is using the same battery,  and will have advice for you.

    Resting battery voltage is usually a good indication of battery State Of Charge (SOC).  A Rested battery is one that has NOT been charged or discharged at all,  for six or more hours (in general).

    Normally,  parallel strings of batteries are not recommended,  but  if you had two strings of batteries in parallel,  you might be able to use a battery selector switch to Rest one string while still using the other.  This switching will not work well on a 48 V system,  but could be OK on 12 and 24 V battery systems (with some limits).

    AGM batteries generally to not behave well when run with parallel strings,  as they are very low impedance,  and usually will not share currents well (ie one string can hog much of the charge current,  for example).

    Thanks for any added detail that you can offer.    Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • pacogpacog Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭
    Well i posted battery info in another thread i started. You guy's already gave me crap(jk) about my plans. 12V system. I am using deka unigy 1, 12v 170ah batteries. I was misinformed when i bought them, guy pretty much lied to me, so i am stuck with them and will have to try and make them work for a least 2 years If possible. That's what you get for not doing your research.

    I know many batteries in parallel are not the best configuration but that's what i'm stuck with for now. I have 10 batteries. 4/0 cable equal lenght. Plan on running them in parallel. Have bus bars to help with this.

    I have not been pushing the system at this point because i am in the process of putting the 4/0 cable in still. Plus installing a new Classic Lite 150. Running large Loads off my generator right now.

    My inverter is a MS2812.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭

    pacog,

    Thanks for the info on your batteries ...  OH !!   Ten 12 V AGM batteries in parallel!

    Are these batteries the 12 AVR 100ET ?

    I have not followed your comments in other discussions.

    It is good that you are investing in large battery interconnecting cables.   The Clamp DC Ammeter will help you monitor current balance,  and take some corrective actions if you see significant imbalance in battery string current balances.

    Many of our systems are not perfect,  do the best that you can,  that is about the best anyone can do.
    Thanks,    Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • pacogpacog Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭
    Vic and others, Thanks again for your help. Here is the info off the battery sticker.

    Part #: 12avr170etver
    Float voltage: 13.5 +/-0.06 @25°c
    Capacity: 170ah @8hr to 1.75 vpc
    Specific gravity:1.3
    Conductance:>638 seimens
    Impedance:<5.363 milliohms
    Internal resistance<6.63 milliohms
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    pacog said:
    Impedance:<5.363 milliohms
    Internal resistance<6.63 milliohms
    How can the impedance be less than the resistance?  --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
    impedance is AC resistance, and without the frequency the impedance is measured at, it's a worthless number
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    impedance is AC resistance, and without the frequency the impedance is measured at, it's a worthless number
    I am clear on that, but at any frequency it cannot be less than the DC resistance.   I assume (but could be wrong) that there is a standard way to measure battery impedance and that it is not necessary to specify frequency.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • Marc KurthMarc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 612 ✭✭✭✭
    Seems a moot point when the real world variation can be +/- 20% to 35% from the published data per battery model.


    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • pacogpacog Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭
    Vtmaps, i only Published what was on the battery sticker info. I'm a newb when it comes to the solar World.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,823 admin
    It is possible that resistance includes "chemical action" (i.e., voltage drop due to chemical to electrical conversion with "looks like resistance").

    Impedance would include the "capacitance" effects of the stacked +/- plates inside the battery and no electro-chemical reactions. Which could be lower than the DC resistance (internal bus + plate grid + electro-chemical voltage drops).

    Just a guess. And it does sort of have electrical significance--The DC current used by a single phase AC inverter is really a 120 Hz "sine squared" wave form (plus AC chargers and solar charge controllers can also have various non-steady state wave forms).

    But as Marc says--The numbers are not that different from each other (within mfg. tolerance ranges) for our needs.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Marc KurthMarc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 612 ✭✭✭✭
    Vic said:

    pacog,

    Thanks for the info on your batteries ...  OH !!   Ten 12 V AGM batteries in parallel!

    Are these batteries the 12 AVR 100ET ?

    I have not followed your comments in other discussions.

    It is good that you are investing in large battery interconnecting cables.   The Clamp DC Ammeter will help you monitor current balance,  and take some corrective actions if you see significant imbalance in battery string current balances.

    Many of our systems are not perfect,  do the best that you can,  that is about the best anyone can do.
    Thanks,    Vic


    Nicely said!
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
    vtmaps said:.I am clear on that, but at any frequency it cannot be less than the DC resistance. .....

    --vtMaps
    you can get resonance - but not likely in a battery.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Belmont SolarBelmont Solar Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭✭
    No intention of raining on your parade, especially so soon after discovering the disadvantages of the current battery setup.
    If you only have the Classic Lite you will need the Classic display in order to be able to use the WBJR
  • Belmont SolarBelmont Solar Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭✭
    Correction: there is one exception: If you are using the local app, then the MNGP display is not required. Although it is still useful and I would not want my system to be without the display.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭
    pacog said:
    RaysSubtropical, Thanks for the response? You have any experience with the Midnite Solar Classic and Classic Lite controllers? Trying to figure out how to set up the classics to properly charge and maintain my Bank. Thinks again for your time.


    Have read the above Post,  as pacog has both MN Classic and a Classic Lite (or perhaps multiples of each).

    FWIW,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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