HELP!!!! Midnite solar classic 150 and 150 light problems and issues

Shawn-H · May 2016

Here is a link the best explains the problems that I am currently suffering with my bank of 4 midnight solar classic 150 and 150 lights.

https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/2015-midnite-classic-problems/

my most recent issue is that the charge controllers continue to send my batteries in to equalize mode sometimes for as long as four hours....... the longest my battery should stay in equalize mode is 1 hour.... and they have completely destroyed a bank of surrette rolls s-480s 8 of them to be exact they lasted less than a year....... I have since replace them with 4700 amp hours of GB industry forklift batteries....... last week I have had all of the auto equalize counters set to zero including the voltage but this does not fix the issue it just stops them from going in to equalize the classics continue to try and equalize and then immediately go out of equalize because equalize counts as absorb I get absolutely no charge unless I go reset the charge controllers enough times to make them finish a full charge cycle......
I am very seriously considering a class action lawsuit due to the fact that I have more than 90 people who are having the same problem and Midnite solar continues to refuse to accept there's a serious flaw in their new charge controllers. The issue with the arc fault and the ground fault false alarms are nowhere near as large as the issue with the equalize mode so far they have cost me the price of 4 charge controllers and roughly $16k in batteries.

I would love to hear any information or ideas for remedy that you guys have as well as coordinate with others were having this issue.

Photowhit · May 2016

Sorry, I haven't experienced the problem. Have you spoken to Midnite your self?

On a separate note, do you understand that GB over rates their forklift batteries by about 20% at the 20 hour rate? Thought I'd let you know now, there is some information here though I have a hard time searching this forum.

I also have a GB battery of reported 800ah, though in reality it's around 650Ah, and so it goes...

I recently went back and reread Handy Bob's thoughts. If I were you I would post my own, he seems to go in too many bad directions, The lacking manual is a joke, it's been around since well before he purchased his units. The Classic is basically a bunch of computer controller switches. I haven't received a manual with any computer I've owned in the last 15 years! Look on line for current manual, firmware and drivers...

His idea of considering Outback's charge controller as "too complicated" and then buying a Classic which is designed to do more...

Arc Fault has been and will continue to be difficult to implement. If you must have it, Midnite was the first to 'meet code'. I have Classic Lites so no Arc fault. If you don't have to have it and find issues, shut it off, particularly if your panels aren't on your roof.

Shawn-H · May 2016

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Thank you for the information I way over purchased batteries anyways, so it's not really that big of a deal to be offset by 20% per battery if it becomes an issue I'll bring it up with them. As far as the charge controller issue I'm glad you have not suffered it yet and I hope you never do...... it's been awhile since I have been on the form how's lif treating you?

Ralph Day · May 2016

I have always looked at generator control and equalizing as things needing operator input control. When I see that the gen needs to run, I run it. When eq is needed, I eq charge. Both can be too expensive (fuel or new batteries) to leave to an automatic setting IMHO.

Ralph

Shawn-H · May 2016

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You're missing what I'm saying we are not leaving it to the machine the machine is doing it without our permission all of my counters are set to zero and it is set to manual but it will still run through an equal I cycle without my permission and Midnite solar refuses to accept the problem and fix it

Photowhit · May 2016

I've been fine, I actually purchased the correct size battery, wanting to be able to run my sustained loads near 1/20th of the battery capacity. (about 1000 watts) Then I moved where I would have slightly larger, higher daily loads, thinking my capacity would be fine. So it makes a very large difference to me, though I've just rolled with it. I'm thinking now I won't replace my inverter with a larger one and see just how cheap I can do off grid. I might be close to parity after tax credits. We'll see in 10 years or so!

Shawn-H · May 2016

Yeah I completely understand I have about the same continuous load as you do and 6 times the batteries so I hope that even as I grow we will be fine. I wanted at least three days of economy for my largest loads and now with all the power I have I'm really considering getting an electric stove and seeing if I can run my electric dryer. This of course is assuming that I can get the damn charge controllers to work right

Vic · May 2016

Shawn-H,

I am with Ralph Day ... EQ is always a manual event, which I monitor (as is generator use).

Personally set EQ voltage to Absorb voltage (or 0.1 V above Vabs), and EQ time to 00:00 Hrs/Mins.

I HAVE seen an EQ initiate when I am navigating around Menus, using the MNGP (LCD Display/pushbutton module), but only twice in about 5.5 years of use). But, at least, I was standing in front of the Classics, and did notice that an "EQ Started".

I had proposed that MN allow Veq to be set to Vfloat, as further protection.

I HAVE seen that perhaps two or three users of MidNite Classic CCs had noted having this issue, on the MidNIte Forum.

I had wondered if handybob worked for, or was a Shill for Morningstar, as his Rants seemed to one-sided and unfair (IMO).

MidNite Forum:
http://www.midniteforum.com/

These are just my opinions, Vic

mike95490 · May 2016

I would never have auto EQ enabled. Never Ever. That said, most of the complainsts at the midnight forum, are about EQ not completing, not having too much of it.
So Just disable the EQ and do it manually, Should have learned from the first batch of batteries, that not changing the setting would not give any different results. I have 3 ways to log and track my system and have never seen an unauthorized EQ occur,
(and I have Morningstar and Classic)

Susido · May 2016

Agree that auto-EQ is almost always a bad idea but I do recall mention on the Midnite forum of equalization occurring when it wasn't set to do so. This was happening with pretty old firmware so I'm wondering what firmware the OP is running?

Photowhit · May 2016

I like auto equalizing and suggest people should do a maintenance equalizing on all tall batteries. I also think batteries SG should be checked regularly and corrective equalizing done when needed.

Dave Angelini · May 2016

The reason I do not like this automatic EQ is I want my clients to spend the time with the batteries. Clean the tops and just have a beer and look at things. Keep a log and maybe set the EQ reminder (on XW gear).
The new LI batteries will eliminate these problems and probably create some new ones.

boB · May 2016

Shawn, We are still working on this EQ issue. It has been extremely slow going though and it is very hard to catch it randomly EQing. We think that the Auto-EQ problem has been fixed though. It was not always starting an Auto-EQ. Actually, it was resetting itself when it would go to Float.

As a work around for the EQ popping up, first the voltage is set to Absorb by default but you can also set the EQ time to zero and then it should not actually do an EQ cycle although I hear that it will (or may ?) say EQ DONE. This doesn't happen to everybody and we are not certain why that is still.

boB

Vic · May 2016

boB said:

Shawn, We are still working on this EQ issue. It has been extremely slow going though and it is very hard to catch it randomly EQing. We think that the Auto-EQ problem has been fixed though. It was not always starting an Auto-EQ. Actually, it was resetting itself when it would go to Float.

As a work around for the EQ popping up, first the voltage is set to Absorb by default but you can also set the EQ time to zero and then it should not actually do an EQ cycle although I hear that it will (or may ?) say EQ DONE. This doesn't happen to everybody and we are not certain why that is still.

boB

Hi boB,

Thanks for the added info on EQ.

Am running FW 1849 on all four Classics here. When I start an EQ, get the MNGP status of "EQ Started" and EQ, or EQ-MPPT, and then "EQ Done" (IIRC) with a normal Manual EQ.

Personally, I would very much like to be able to set Veq below Vabs, probably would like to be able to set Veq to Vfloat, AND EQ time = 00:00. Always set EQ time to 00"00 when not doing an EQ.

Often, when have added water to the FLA banks, want to increase Vabs to something near an EQ voltage. But, then the Veq in the Classic is raised to that new, high Vabs, as a result. This necessitates resetting the Veq as well as the Vabs on all Classics that are on Follow Me when this hot Absorb is done ... it is quite a bit of resetting. Do know that the Local App will allow easy setting of the charge parameters from its memory, but just do not have computers at all sites that we deal with ... and so on.

FWIW, Thanks 73, Vic

Shawn-H · May 2016

Thank you guys for all your time and comment Midnite solar is working with me to resolve the situation it is a very long road so far and we're not sure if they got it fixed one of the best ways that I have found for the others that are suffering this problem is to pull the cable off the following me Network that sends the information back to the master controller as long as the master controller is not your problem. The issue, because the master controller will redirect the controller that is attempting to go in to equalize. You should also set your equalizer voltage to your absorb voltage just in case this fixed does not work as I said previously I burned up a set of batteries because I trusted these controllers.
My suggestion to anybody who has an off-grid system is the check your logs at the same time you check your batteries do not wait until the generator fires up at 8 o'clock at night after a sunny day.

boB · May 2016

Shawn, what software version is in your Classic and have you ever upgraded (or downgraded) the software ? Just wondering if you are able to do that easily ? Some people have a bit of trouble sometimes, being (usually) windows and all that.
boB

PS. are you using more than one Classic and using the Follow-Me cable ?

Shawn-H · May 2016

Yes I am running Follow Me Network and I have the latest version of the software it seems to have fixed itself as long as I do not Loop The Follow Me Network as long as I simply allow the chain to go from one to another and not back to the master controller. But the second I hook it all back up correctly it automatically freaks out and goes in to equalize even with the proper software.

Vic · May 2016

Hi again Shawn-H,

Shawn, What Firmware VERSION NUMBER is each of the four Classics and Classic Lites running??
Have you ever updated the Firmware in any of these Classic?

Second, you said, "... the fact that I have more than 90 people who are having the same problem and Midnite solar ...".

SO, are you saying that you know of 90 people who are having this problem?

I do NOT recall anyone on this Forum, stating that they have seen this self-initiated EQ on a Classic CC. In five years of using Classics here, I HAVE seen this situation only twice. And, each time, it appeared to have been initiated by my navigating through Menus, using the MNGP, attached to a Classic. AND, it is immediately apparent when this self-initiated EQ starts, as the Classic/s say that they are starting an EQ, on the MNGP, and the battery voltage begins to rise to the EQ voltage setting, if the Veq is set above Vabs. It seems to not be a secret, ... at least to me.

Once again, here is the MidNite Forum site:
http://www.midniteforum.com/

I HAVE seen several references to the self-initiated EQ on the MidNite Fourm, where there may well be about one thousand or so users of MN Classics, BUT only a very few members there seemed to have mentioned this.

Just IMO, the reference to 90 users of Classics that you know having this issue seems incredible to me ...

One thing about FollowMe; The settings on each Classic must be the same, and the Firmware version MUST be identical on EACH Classic in FollowMe. There are a few of the User's settings, like Offset voltage, etc, that can be different between all of the Classics in FM, believe.

We DO run FollowMe on the Classics in use here, and have not ever had an issue with having all of the FollowMe cables connected properly.

You might check that all of those cables are correctly connected, as noted in the Classic Manual, and that each connected Classic's Blue LED flashes every few seconds (visible through the Vent slots, above the MNGP or MNLP.

Thank You for any detail of the Firmware VERSION NUMBER that EACH Classic in this system with the issues is running.

Vic

boB · May 2016

This is a VERY difficult bug to catch as it rarely happens. I had JUST recently heard that it happened with Follow-Me... Maybe more often than without F-Me ? I have seen a Classic go into EQ ONCE and was able to look at modbus registers without seeing anything in particular to blame. But when Follow-Me is involved... It was powered up and came to EQ at that time. That is a clue that should help tremendously ! Fixing bugs requires any input (that is true) to help track down these types of things. Thank you !

I believe that the 90 people he refers to are Handy-Bob's people, maybe.

boB

SolarMusher · May 2016

boB said:

This is a VERY difficult bug to catch as it rarely happens. I had JUST recently heard that it happened with Follow-Me... Maybe more often than without F-Me ? I have seen a Classic go into EQ ONCE and was able to look at modbus registers without seeing anything in particular to blame. But when Follow-Me is involved... It was powered up and came to EQ at that time. That is a clue that should help tremendously ! Fixing bugs requires any input (that is true) to help track down these types of things. Thank you !

I believe that the 90 people he refers to are Handy-Bob's people, maybe.

boB

Hi boB,
As you know, I'm one of these few guys who have had EQ problems in the past but as Vic said it only happened when navigating through the MNGP. To be honnest, I didn't see it started on its own since a few years on recent firmwares. I don't know where Shawn found 90 people when there should be only three or four guys who really saw this kind of problems in the last 5 years.
Anyway, I would not trade my 5 years old Classic for two brand new Moningstar controllers, lol.
A+
Erik

Vic · May 2016

SolarMusher said:

boB said:

This is a VERY difficult bug to catch as it rarely happens. I had JUST recently heard that it happened with Follow-Me... Maybe more often than without F-Me ? I have seen a Classic go into EQ ONCE and was able to look at modbus registers without seeing anything in particular to blame. But when Follow-Me is involved... It was powered up and came to EQ at that time. That is a clue that should help tremendously ! Fixing bugs requires any input (that is true) to help track down these types of things. Thank you !

I believe that the 90 people he refers to are Handy-Bob's people, maybe.

boB

Hi boB,
As you know, I'm one of these few guys who have had EQ problems in the past but as Vic said it only happened when navigating through the MNGP. To be honnest, I didn't see it started on its own since a few years on recent firmwares. I don't know where Shawn found 90 people when there should be only three or four guys who really saw this kind of problems in the last 5 years.
Anyway, I would not trade my 5 years old Classic for two brand new Moningstar controllers, lol.
A+
Erik

Hi Erik,

Very, very well-stated! The MidNite Classics are really the Swiss Army Knife of CCs. They have many, many useful functions built-in, at no extra cost. Seems to me, that all of these extra functions, can simply be ignored, if one does not want to use them. They seem to Default in the correct state, for me (IIRC).

AND, there are many Classics being used. Many members here, and of course on the MidNite Forum are here to help as much as we can. Founders of MidNite and Engineering persons frequent this site fairly often, as well as at the MidNite Forum. On the MN Forum, Engineering, Tech and Founders are regulars there.

MidNite is not trying to hide anything, or from anyone. They are a very open company.

Once again the MidNite Forum is here:
http://www.midniteforum.com/

And, boB thanks for continuing to look for that bug. intermittents are usually very hard to find. I have not seen this EQ thing for about 18 - 24 months. And, as stated before, would not use, or recommend using Auto EQ, with perhaps one exception.

I am very fond of MidNite products, almost without exception. And do admire the ethics of the company. I have no axe to grind, just am very impressed with what MidNite does and how they do it.

Thanks, Vic

H2SO4_guy · June 2016

I have 4 Classic 150's with various F/W that will go into EQ if I go to the charge menu sometimes. I keep the EQ time set to 15 minutes and the voltage on the AGM strings the same as the Absorb voltage just in case. Not a big deal to me and if they did go into EQ (Even though I have them set to manual EQ) for an extra 15 minutes at Absorb voltage. Mine were bought around 3 - 3 and 1/2 years ago and they rock!

I wish they would take larger wire and the fans can be noisy, but have worked for over 3 years on all 4 of them. I would buy them again. I should probably upgrade the F/W so they are all the same, but hey, they work just fine.

boB · June 2016

H2O, are your classics using follow me ? And do you remember at all what charge menu(s) you might have entered into when EQ did inadvertently come up ?

Yes, the default for EQ is Absorb just in case it does get put into EQ mode but it is not supposed to have a mind of its own.

Please hold off on updating firmware for a couple or 3 weeks because there may be a newer version coming up to help this problem but it has not been tested yet.

Thank you for your input on this !

boB

H2SO4_guy · June 2016

Hi boB, it is an honor to communicate with you. I have been using products you have had a hand in for almost 20 years and thank you for all of your efforts. Not only are you helping dreams becoming greater dreams, but actually giving folks the tools to live a more free life.

Four Classics (All purchased from NAWS), none in follow me mode, but I often have 2 go to the same bank of batteries (2 48 volt strings of 1040 AH each). My theory is if I have different panels I can work it out with paralleling Classics to get the desired increase in amperage to the batteries. I worked out a system where I use Midnite breakers to switch strings of panels to different charge controllers depending on how I want the power to be distributed. From a string of panels to a breaker, then the output of that breaker gets split to 4 outputs to breakers that feed the bus bar (Again Midnite) to each different Classic 150. I do have to be careful to only have one switch on at once so I don't send a string to more than one Classic at one time. It has worked great for over 2 years on the 4 banks of batteries, almost all purchased used. The Dream is to have an off-grid Aquaponics farm. You are helping to make that happen.

The one that most often goes into an EQ mode is on FW CL3703. Usually does it when I press MENU and go to CHARGE then press ENTER. The curser is ABOVE the EQ setting and sometimes right then it goes into an EQ mode. 3 Keystrokes. When I hit MENU to go back out a screen to the main menu area I will notice that the EQ mode is engaged. Not a big deal to me, just a work-around.

I don't check this too often, sorry it took so long to reply. Thanks again for all of your efforts, you guys rock!

Skip

boB · July 2016

H20, thank you again....

What firmware is in your Classic and MNGP ?

b o B

H2SO4_guy · July 2016

Hi b o B,

The Classic 150 in question that I know occasionally goes into EQ mode without me pressing the EQ option is:

MNGP 1056 6/29/12

Classic 1070 8/13/12

Here is a way that I know it has done it.

At Main Menu screen

Highlight CHARGE

Press ENTER key

That puts the cursor on the VOLTS option.

I have pressed the STATUS key, it takes it to the Status menu and occasionally it shows EQ mode, but not all of the time. I like to leave these on the Status screen so I can see how much harvest there is. Keep in mind that the cursor never went to the EQ option.

Of the 4 Classic 150’s only 2 of them have the exact firmware. I will play with them all this weekend and see if I can make the EQ happen without me telling it to go to EQ.

Thanks again for all your work, I know how tough intermittent issues are,

Skip

zoneblue · July 2016

1070, yikes. That was the one on our classic out of the box 4 years ago. And it wasnt anything to be proud of, to be frank.

You need to upgrade that, before wondering why it doesnt work right.

HELP!!!! Midnite solar classic 150 and 150 light problems and issues

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