240 volt issue

Creolin
Creolin Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
I ordered a tiny house recently.  I had inquired prior to buying my solar stuff if the AC units where 120 or 240.  I was told the whole house would be 120.  Upon arrival, the AC units where actually 208-230 v.  All the solar stuff that I bought is set up for 120V.  The inverter that I have bought is the Magnum 4024.  Is there any way of increasing the voltage of my current system without having to purchase a new (and expensive) inverter?  I have looked at some of the transformers, but they seem to only do single phase and use plugs.  I need a system that I can wire into a standard USA breaker box.

Thank you in advance.

Comments

  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    The sponsor of this forum has this..... http://www.solar-electric.com/psx-240.html
    Am Outback auto former for 240 from 120...

     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Creolin
    Creolin Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    I looked at the PSX-240 and it says you must have 2 inverters stacked, OUTBACK programmed stacked (vs. classic stacking), or two separate in phase 120v circuits (by the owners manual).  Would the magnum 4024 be considered 2 different in phase 120 circuits?
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Creolin said:
    I looked at the PSX-240 and it says you must have 2 inverters stacked, OUTBACK programmed stacked (vs. classic stacking), or two separate in phase 120v circuits (by the owners manual).  Would the magnum 4024 be considered 2 different in phase 120 circuits?


    I think you are looking at the step down setup, to step up from 120 to 240, the diagram only shows one 120 line in...

    http://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/PSX-240-manual.pdf

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2016 #5
    Nope, it does both..first point in the Highlights on this page....http://www.outbackpower.com/outback-products/integration-hardware/item/autotransformer
    Also page 5 point #1 of PhoptoWhit's link
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Creolin
    Creolin Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Thank you guys for your advice.  Guess I am ordering a PSX 240.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Is it possible to get the A/C unit exchanged to a different model (120 VAC only)? The other option would be to get a 120/240 VAC inverter.

    A/C systems (and even refrigerators to a degree) are two big drivers to "bigger" solar power systems. Do you have a good estimate on how many kWH per day you plan on using? Will you have utility power and "backup solar power" -- Or is this for an Off Grid system?

    There are modern Mini-Split systems that have inverter based compressors--Which are very "solar friendly"--But most of them seem to be ~240 VAC units now (the older 120 VAC smaller mini-splits seem to have "gone away"). Also, there are heat pump versions that can do cooling and heating--Something that can even work pretty nicely even on solar power systems (at least during sunny winter weather).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Creolin said:
    Thank you guys for your advice.  Guess I am ordering a PSX 240.

    I'd have a serious talk with the guys who told you it was going to be  120 volts only.  You could have purchased a 120/240 volt inverter for just a few dollars more. I'd suggest they should at very least split the cost of the autotransformer!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2016 #9
    what about the Solar  retailer,  can you trade the 120 v inverter for an upgrade to 120/240? After the 120V 'chat'!
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • vince
    vince Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭
    I remember seeing transformers up/down 120-240V that have a capacity of 2kW and would do what you need from them. Less than $100.
    Sunpower 3 x 435 watt panels, 48 v 215 AH battery bank (Sam's club), Midnite Kid and WBjr, Fujitsu 9RLS3 split duct AC, Outback FX 3048T + transformer 2000W 120/220V, GrapeSolar Fridge.
  • Creolin
    Creolin Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    I am still arguing with the people that sold me the house and told me that it was 120 v only (to either replace the units or help with a new inverter).  The 2KW system would not work (AC units alone can pull 3250w).  The ones installed are a mini-split system.  When I was purchasing everything, that is why I had asked about the 120 versus 240 in the tiny home.  Figured I would save a few dollars and buy the cheaper inverter if 240 wasn't needed (MISTAKE).  I began purchasing all the solar stuff back in January and my tiny home was finally delivered the first week of April (after several delays).  So too much time has gone by to exchange anything.  Yes, I have the sizing down, actually, I have way too many solar panels (over 6 KW/hr) for what I need and have over 20 KW of battery storage.  Best I can tell right now, I am only using between 5-8Kw/day (Of course, that is with a generator and not the solar panels/batteries.)
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For a well insulated tiny house, I doubt you'll need an a/c that draws that much energy. I would think a 24000 btu mini split would draw less than 2,000 watts. Might check your figures. That would be a higher cooling capacity than 4 of my window units that draw less than 500watts and could cool up to 800 square feet. Though perhaps we have a different definition of "Tiny House".

    BTW-Mini splits ramp up slowly so don't have a huge compressor draw at the begining.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Creolin
    Creolin Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Well, this tiny house turned out to be nothing much more than a 399 sq. ft trailer, and insulated as such.  I would not recommend buying from Tiny house outlet, tiny house direct, or legacy homes.  The 2 split units are 7.3 amp/230v/60hz .  They do work well off of my generator.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Something isn't right, Not sure what capacity you have, but even a bad mini split should be lower wattage for the cooling space.  You will need a huge solar array to support that size load for any length of time. I don't have a small system and wouldn't want to try to run those monsters.

    I'd like to a have a mini split in the main room of my 900 sq foot modular/mobile home. A 1200btu should be about right to cool the near 500 square foot main room and kitchen area and bad ones 14-15 seer units) run @1350watts you are looking at more than that to run less than half the space....

    My 5200btu window unit cools a 16x14 room that's over 200 square feet, and runs around 500watts...

    Something's not right!!!

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Johann
    Johann Solar Expert Posts: 245 ✭✭✭
    If a AC unit is to big for a dwelling, the dwelling will get cool fast but the humidity will remain inside the dwelling which will leave you with cold humid air inside the dwelling.
    The longer a unit runs the more humidity it will remove, the proper setting would be 50 to 50 or ....50% on and 50% off throughout a 24hr time which would give enough running time to remove moister and still cool you place while it preserves electricity.

    A 5,000 BTU AC would be enough for a 399 sft dwelling and as Photowhit said already it will use about 500 watts per hr.

    I use two 5,000 BTU units for a 1200sft  80 year old home and I have a 3rd unit as standby that gets used about 3 weeks a year.

  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2016 #16
    Tell us more about the air conditioning  system.
    Why not use a window unit that can quickly, easily and cheaply be replaced? 
    What voltage is the DC side of your solar power system? 
    As far as I can tell you need at least 24volt to run a decent 240VAC pure sine inverter. 48v would be better.

    Sounds like you have two roughly 1.4 ton units for 400 square feet which makes absolutely no sense what so ever. The people who built that trailer are completely insane, completely stupid or both.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • Creolin
    Creolin Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Well, I finally got the sales person on the phone.  It seems that they ran out of the original AC units that were being used.  Their purchasing department bought a whole truck load from Florida.  The installers just installed the new units and evidently no one told anyone in the sales or management of the changes.  According to the sales person, they found out about the same time I called when they were setting up for a show and couldn't get the AC's to work.  (At least thats the story I was told.)  I am still going around with them about getting the units replaced or them to purchase the PSX240.  I can use a window unit, but I just paid $25K.  I expect them to fix the problem.  These split units are also the heating units as well.  One of them is more than a enough to heat/cool the whole house.

    I haven't set up all the solar stuff yet.  I purchased it all and it's sitting in storage while I get this crap worked out.  But I have 20 x 330w solar panels (not planning on using all the panels right now), 16 6volt batteries (210amp hrs) (I was going to set them up in 24v config), a Magnum 4024 PSW Inverter,and an Outback 80A, 
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Make sure you have float charger(s) for your batteries (or a traditional charger for 24 hours every 30 days minimum)... If they sit for more than 1 month without any charging, they will begin to sulfate and go bad (and if they are not fully charged now, they will will begin to sulfate even sooner).

    Batteries that are sulfated are only good for recycling--They cannot be brought back to life (like new condition).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • WaterWheel
    WaterWheel Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭✭
    With sixteen 6v batteries wired up for a 24v configuration you're going to have 4 battery strings.      I'm no expert but as I understand it running that many strings (3 strings max and 2 strings is better) will cause uneven battery charging.       I'd be sure to use some very heavy wires and connectors to help even out the charge between the battery strings.

    Conext XW6848 with PDP, SCP, 80/600 controller, 60/150 controller and Conext battery monitor

    21 SW280 panels on Schletter ground mount

    48v Rolls 6CS 27P

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    You can connect more than 3 battery strings together--I just recommend that you look for other options (higher voltage battery bank, using larger AH capacity batteries/cells, etc.).

    If you already have the batteries+hardware--You might as well use them. This will be a learning experience for you.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset