Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

Photowhit
Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Well I'm heading out for the holidays, well a 2 week contract job in my home town.

In the past 10 days, we have had about as poor a weather as you can have living with solar, at least in this area. One hour of sun, in 10 days!

In my 15 years living in Missouri, mostly off grid, this is the worst stretch of cloudy weather I can recall. Before this stretch we had a mostly sunny weekend and I think I had the battery topped off, running steady about 70%, I don't use much energy in the winter, and I do get some charging on the cloudy days, actually been light clouds for a couple of these days.

So I leave, 'partly cloudy' today, which in the past 10 days has meant no sun then a mostly cloudy and a half cloudy and half sunny, hope that happens as it looks like 4 more cloudy/rainy days after that...

Maybe I will look into a generator...

Just the fridge running while I'm gone, and no heat in the place so, mostly it'll run less. I'll be sure to equalize as soon as possible when I get back...
Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
- Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    "It's that easy Luke; just step over the line to the Dark Side."

    :D
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  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    If you are not in the American south west and especially if you are up north you need a generator.
    If you don't have a generator you will pay for it in the form of hard deep cycling on your batteries.
    And voilà you are buying new batteries sooner rather than later.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

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  • Dan_
    Dan_ Solar Expert Posts: 61 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    Us too! Been miserable, can't even do laundry, clothes won't dry on the line. I'm in N CA though. No good sun in two weeks. Hate running the generator but its a must
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    With an expensive battery, having a genset IS good insurance, and even the noise could let one sleep better, knowing that there is that backup.

    Here in N. Central CA, we have had many more successive cloudy days, with little PV contribution ... have not HAD to run the genset, but probably will need to tomorrow, if there is not some sun soon. In all years past, there would be two, or perhaps three cloudy days, then one or more good sunny days -- not this year.

    FWIW ... Happy Holidays, etc. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • 2twisty
    2twisty Solar Expert Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    I've got my generator set to automatically protect my batteries. If my SOC falls below 60, genny comes on and bulks them back up to 85%

    I don't have it charge completely, since I want to get my charge from solar whenever possible. It's just there as a safety net in case they drop too far.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!
    oil pan 4 wrote: »
    If you are not in the American south west and especially if you are up north you need a generator.
    If you don't have a generator you will pay for it in the form of hard deep cycling on your batteries.
    And voilà you are buying new batteries sooner rather than later.

    I live in Missouri, I really don't want a generator...

    I''ve lived off grid for 14 years, and have had reasonable battery life in the past. I'm a tad over paneled and wished I had gone ahead and put up the 2K I ha've in the closet...lol.

    I don't think we had any sun today... Perhaps an afternoon shining tomorrow...

    Just consider me a pioneer...lol.

    A reasonable battery generator and having to buy a new inverted/charger or a stand alone charger would cost more than battery replacement
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • H2SO4_guy
    H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    In Missouri too and 6 days without direct sunshine. For the first 2 I did heat a little with batteries, but had to switch to heating with propane for the next 4. Took the big bank down to 49.5 volts under load. The lowest I have ever taken it down ever, having it in operation for over a year now. When we did get sun 4.7k array of panels showed 24.9 kwh on the Midnite display. Pretty good since 4200 of them are Evergreens and there are also 4 of the 136 watt Uni Solar flexible panels in parallel at a 2 /12 pitch on the roof. So that works out to about 5 times nameplate. Best so far!

    Overall I have been making about 22% of nameplate wattage. The panels that are at the 'Wrong' angle (Flat on a slightly pitched roof) produce about 60% more power than those at the 'Correct' winter angle when there is no direct sunlight. I have East, West, and South facing panels. This is when it is totally overcast and no direct sunshine. Made 42% of nameplate today. Trying not to run a generator and haven't for a year and a half.

    Thanks for everyone's experiences here. I read much more than comment.

    Skip
    12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    In the past 9 days, I've run the generator 3 to 4 hours each day. Last 2 days, I got a whopping 1,200 wh from 5Kw of PV . We may see some sun this weekend for an hour or two.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    I picked up my spare 1900 watt coleman generator off CL for $100 and I just sold two 36 volt 17 amp chargers on ebay for $85 each.
    With a generator like that you could run 2 battery chargers and likely run what ever else you need off the generators while the battery is charging.
    There is no point in buying a new generator and new battery chargers that will only be used as a backup on occasion.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!
    oil pan 4 wrote: »
    ....
    There is no point in buying a new generator and new battery chargers that will only be used as a backup on occasion.

    Well, they have to be new enough to be reliable to keep the beer cold.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • SkiDoo55
    SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!
    mike95490 wrote: »
    In the past 9 days, I've run the generator 3 to 4 hours each day. Last 2 days, I got a whopping 1,200 wh from 5Kw of PV . We may see some sun this weekend for an hour or two.

    Mike you did good, over here in the valley from 11KW of panels I produced in total 275 Wh. Battery system produced Zero output for the day! Today was better, but the last few weeks haven't been too exciting. Nature of the Beast.
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!
    SkiDoo55 wrote: »
    Mike you did good, over here in the valley from 11KW of panels I produced in total 275 Wh. Battery system produced Zero output for the day! Today was better, but the last few weeks haven't been too exciting. Nature of the Beast.
    Wow. I'm trying to figure out from your .sig what you have installed as charge controller, I just see 2 G.T. inverters
    I've tried to tweak my charge controllers to get the most out of the PV on cloudy days. The Classic loves clear sunny skies, but clouds and overcast, I reverted it to it's legacy P/O algorithm which works almost as good at the 4 year old Morningstar TS MPPT 60.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    problem now is the cursed beavers that, when active, keep doing their best to plug off the turbine supply. VERY frustrating!

    Time to make those Beavers into warming Projects & food .
    We had a few streams / rivers that had a few but all washed down stream since this last rain , them and a few houses , docks !

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnzl34KWAOQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brzb_hOeDv8

    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Vancouver+Island+rescued+from+home+wrecked+landslide/10459821/story.html

    VT with Webbed feet
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  • SkiDoo55
    SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    XW MPPT60-150 charge controller the 275 Wh was from the GT inverters. Lowest readings I have ever recorded. We got close to 5 inches of rain with 40 to 60 mph winds all day. Did 6 KWh today, still very cloudy but little rain. Battery system has 6 ET250W panels normally does real good if it gets sun. Pointed due south and 35 deg tilt. Figured I was going to need to use backup , but we didn't loose power in our area from this storm. Last storm like this one was without grid for 3 days, generator got lot's of exercise, just installed this system a few months ago.
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
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  • inca2607
    inca2607 Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭
    #16
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    Just reading through complete post, We live off grid in Cornwall in the south west of the UK. Before we fitted a wind turbine are generator averaged 4 hour running a day, now we have 4 kw of solar and 3 kw wind turbine, and are now down to about 4 hour a week of generator running. so can we have some of your sun please....

    We can go for week without solar gain in the winter, so we are defiantly on the dark side over here, still wouldn't have it any other way.

    The normal is to have a mains electrical connection in the UK. We are about 2 miles from the nearest poles.. so cost of installation was to high.

    Just need to get my SI set up correctly, we had beed using a 48 volt Trace inverter for many years after 2 lighting strikes in as many years parts were getting hard to obtain..


    Merry Christmas from over the pond......as they say..

    Adrian
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #17
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    Be interested in reading more about your wind turbine setup and how much power is produces per month (average).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • inca2607
    inca2607 Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭
    #18
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    hi Bill

    The wind turbine doesn't have a built in data log, but i think that i can borrow one from work and see what is produces, or can you recommend a stand alone data log.

    We have just had replacement turbine from "Westwind" as the first one lost a blade in some high wind earlier in the year ( Turbine had been in service for about 10 years ) some it wasn't that bad.

    Westwind are now called Ampair Westwind

    We now have the turbine mounted at about 12 mts high originally it was lower and we suffered with ground disturbance.

    The turbine is a 3kw 48 volt unit

    Adrian
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #19
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    Adrian,

    Just curious. I am not a fan of wind (and cannot use it at my home anyway for multiple reasons)--But it is nice to hear from folks that have good luck with their wind turbines.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • inca2607
    inca2607 Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭
    #20
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    HI

    To be honest we probably get more from our solar, but there isn't a lot of sun here in Cornwall through the winter months so wind is the only other option, just need to get it set up with the new SI inverter......

    Adrian
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #21
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    Do you have a pic or 2 of that turbine?
    Just watched a "Coast" documentary on the Cornish area, pretty rugged and exposed... Do you enjoy lots of wind?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • inca2607
    inca2607 Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭
    #22
    Re: Rethinking the generator, 10 days with 1 total hour of sun!!!

    Hi

    I will get some posted tomorrow, i've even got some of what damage can be done to a turbine when it looses a blade......

    Cornwall can be a bit windy, but we are a bit in land so it not to bad, the prevailing wind is SW which blows straight of the Atlantic...

    But i wouldnt live anywhere else....Cornish through and through....
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