Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank

Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank

mike95490 wrote: »

Thats a lot of battery bank. There are 4v and 2v batteries,
http://www.solar-electric.com/trl111ah2dec.html
that can be used to increase Ah without going to parallel strings. (Some, like i linked to, have a 3 cell case with the cells in parallel, so your watering task gets WORSE.)

Many large diesel pusher Coaches have large battery banks, usually AGM since the owners want a maintenance free install. I don't want to go to AGM's, would rather put that same money to flooded lead acid by adding capacity or quality.

Here is a pic of the battery bay.

Attachment not found.

Don't mind the cables, they will be redone with the new batteries. The Coach had 2 8D batteries with dry cells that an old Xantrex inverter had fried.
So for now I have installed 4 Deka 8C6V 330ah batteries from a seldom used scrubber at my work for a week or two until I get permanent batteries. So my bank now is about 660ah. They are a few years old and aren't in super good shape since the charger at work does not have any equalize function and the SG varies a bit from cell to cell. I have done an equalize and it helped, but still not at 100%.

2 volt won't work very well since I would need 6 batteries and my space won't accommodate that easily. I looked for 4 volt industrial batteries, but didn't find many sizes that would let me put 3 of them in.

If I want to stay to one string, I could use 2 6 volt batteries with higher AH ratings or a single 12 volt battery.

In the Trojan Industrial line I could fit 2 of the IND9-6V series http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/datasheets/IND9-6V_TrojanRE_Data_Sheets.pdf
Trojan says they are designed for 1500 cycles @ 80% DOD.

At 80% DOD and a 464ah bank, I could get 371ah capacity.

That is very similar to the 4 L16RE-B bank at 50% DOD, but the cost is roughly $250 more for the bank.

So is a single string bank of 2 IND9-6V at 80% DOD better than a 2 string bank of L16RE-B @ 50% DOD? Is it enough to justify $250?
How much value should I place on getting to s single string?

One other choice is to go to a single 12v battery, maybe a Crown industrial 530ah

http://www.solar-electric.com/crinba6.html

My last question is, am I Ok in using 50% DOD on the Trojan non industrial line, and 80% DOD on the Trojan Industrial and Crown line?

One point is that I need to have these installed in the next 20 days, so need to make sure something is in stock.

Thanks!

Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank

Vic wrote: »

Seems that with these Coaches, that as long as a dying battery bank does not leave one stranded, if one gets 15 - 18 months from the House Bank, things should be fine. Such a low standard as this makes many things considerably easier. Stationary off-gridders mostly want 10 -15 years from their banks (I do, at least).

OOooooppppssssss, attitude & Opinion, Vic

For the most part, I would agree, but not all. There are a few reasons why. First the vast majority of the service, battery mods and replacements occur at the hand of an RV dealer. Have you ever had the misfortune of dealing with an RV dealer? :-) I avoid it like the plague!

The second reason is that many (not all) owners of RV's and high end coaches are at a point in their lives where they want luxury, and they want it easy and carefree and they are willing (and able) to pay for it. This means they don't want to check water levels, SG or SOC. They have no desire to set absorb, float or equalize values or times to match their battery bank. They rely on the dealer to do this (and you know how that goes). They want to push a button and be done. Now you link this up with the RV dealer and you have a match made in heaven! We know what the RV dealer sells and installs...what he makes the most money on!

The last reason is that many Coaches/RV's do not include the very best equipment when it comes to components. Unfortunately the lowest bidder of an component wins rather than the best match to the other components. It seems the vast majority of RV Inverter/Chargers fry their battery banks into oblivion. When it burns the battery bank dry, the RV dealer installs an expensive set of "maintenance free" AGM's, forgets (or doesn't know how) to properly set the charger levels, and everyone goes on their way...for another 15-18 months (like you mentioned). Rinse and repeat.

I am not the norm, not old nor rich, never visited an RV dealer for service or sales, and my installation may as well be my home, it just so happens to have wheels! :-) I do my own maintenance and upgrades and love to understand the where, why and how a system works. It is pure joy to see a system with parts working in harmony.

I was forced to upgrade my charger/inverter almost a year ago, just after I bought the coach. My crappy xantrex burnt out. At that time I didn't have the knowledge I have now. I put in the Magnum MS2812 with BMK and AGS, which has been a great inverter and is supposedly a decent charger. Probably not the best, but hopefully enough settings to not jeopardize the other components. I probably wish now I had purchased an Outback inverter and added a stand alone charger. Time will tell.

Your perspective is dead on...for the majority of the RV industry. There is a reason though I am reaching out to this group rather than RV'ers. :-)

Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank

Blackcherry04 wrote: »

You can buy Industrial / Forklift batteries about any size you want. The smallest cells are 16 " high and about 6x6" , you can buy them cased from one cell to as many as you want. The heights are the variable 16, 20, 25 ,28" The are sold in amp hr capacity and the number of plate pairs per cell.

The cheaper than Industrial batteries is to buy Surrette / Rolls S-1400 EX it's a 2 v 1000 amp hr in a L-16 case. It has 1/4 " forklift plates and has ample room for the electrolyte ( forklift batteries don't ) . Don't know if you have enough room to work 6 in. The next best would be S-1725, same size and 1380 amp hr @ 2v. ^ Batteries your looking at $2,800.

How about having someone weld you a custom rack where you could double stack GC-2 golf carts and slide the racks in and out for service ? 8 @ 6v 220 amp hr, 880 amp hr , 580 lb and less than $800. They are predictable, that alone means a lot with batteries. They have less voltage sag @ 12 V and a whole lot easier to charge.

www.rollsbattery.com/public/specsheets/S-1400EX.pdf‎

www.rollsbattery.com/public/specsheets/spec_36.pdf‎
.

Good ideas! My initial choice was T105's. I can fit 8 in the space, but I am looking at 4 strings. That is a whole bunch of cabling, 24 caps to remove to check SG and while it is priced right at around $800, I don't think I can talk myself into it. Plus not many recommendations on 4 strings.

I can't fit 6 L16 2v into the space. :-( I have exactly 32" of width. This is when I realized that 4 L16RE-B 6v would be a good solution. 2 strings of 2. I can get these for a killer price of $315 each, $1260 for the bank of 4.

I also like the IND9-6V which is part of Trojans Industrial design. 2 of them would be 1 string, 464ah capacity with 370ah use-able at 80% DOD (which is supported by Trojan and still has 1500 cycles). Should be around $1500-$1600 for the pair and total weight is only 420lbs. This is my current best choice.

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/datasheets/IND9-6V_TrojanRE_Data_Sheets.pdf


I like the forklift battery concept, but am having difficulty finding specs - sizes and ratings. GB shows combined banks, but no individual cells. Same with Crown and Deka. Maybe I will call a few tomorrow.

GB info is here. http://gbindustrialbattery.com/Forklift_Battery_Sizes_and_Specifications_Zone15.html

Almost any of their 12v banks would work.
6-75-13 - 709ah - 530 lbs and $1309 list
6-100-13 - 946ah - 612 lbs - $1558 list.

Seems like a decent choice.

Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank

Blackcherry04 wrote: »

Here is a company that manufactures all kinds of of relays and battery solutions, converters for the Marine market.

http://sterling-power-usa.com/prolatch-r-160amp12vor24v.aspx

Nice find! But correct me if I am wrong...wouldn't this isolator/switcher merely select which bank would charge when (under a preset condition?)

My main concern with the alternator charging my new bank is not knowing (or being able to control) what it does to it, no ability to control any parameters. While on shore power or genset my Magnum would charge it with my specific presets for bulk, absorb float etc, then I would hit the road and the alternator would charge differently. I did find this advanced alternator regulator on the same site - it allows for 4 step charging.
Sterling Advanced Alternator Regulator
Now if I can customize its settings to match my Magnum, then I should be set. I may need to use it in conjunction with the Prolatch.

Are my concerns warranted about the alternator charging my forklift bank in a completely different fashion than my Magnum? I don't want to make things overly complex.

My other choice is to not allow the alternator to ever charge the forklift bank. I could use it to the designed DOD and then run the genset to charge it as needed. The reality is that many times the genset is already running to enable the rooftop AC's to be used while traveling..especially in Summer. This may be a better plan...and not too complex.

Thanks!

Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank

Blackcherry04 wrote: »

Yes they do in that model, Even on their data sheet they do not show how or if it's one cell or more interconnected in common electrolyte pool , not that i think it makes a difference. Trojan is very respected in the battery world, so I'd say they know their stuff. There must be something to do with Amp Hr capacity that causes them to make them that way.

I looked at their 2 cell industrial, the problem is their limited sizes. They only offer two size and both are HUGE AH. I can't fit 6 of them in, my bank would be 6' long and I would have to put it in a trailer! :-)

What about using the 6volt version in the same industrial line? It would be one string at either 495ah or 695ah (if I could fit 2 of the IND13-6v)

They do advertise 80% DOD in their industrial line. http://www.trojanbattery.com/products/deep-cycle-flooded/industrial-line-flooded/
I guess the difference that vtMaps is referring to is they specifically indicate they address PSOC in their design, which could apply to me, although I think I could address it.

I realize that the forklift batteries are designed around a 8hr discharge/charge cycle to 80% DOD. This is obviously to cover 8 hours of work in a warehouse. The reality though is that many forklifts are not used continuously and may take 2 or 3 days to reach 80% DOD, at which point they are charged. They do sit idle at various SOC. We use 2 Crown forklifts in this exact manner and haven't seen any battery issues. One is at 7 years and the other at 5 years and both are still at near full capacity. Both have watering systems on them.

In my use I would probably not reach 80% DOD in one continuous cycle, it may span a couple of days, or at times would be one day. Since I am not relying on solar, I could charge them as soon as they reach 20% SOC with the genset and could charge to 100% in one cycle (not span days).

I am going to confirm this use with BBI and get the info on the Alt E differences (if any)