Xantrex XW6048 with AGS: can it start a Generac Guardian emergency standby generator

Before anyone chastises me on voiding a warranty and using emerg stby gen for off-grid use:

I am designing a small grid interactive XW6048 based system with around 5-10kW/hrs of battery. My goal is to use a smaller generator and reduce its run time during extended outages, while the XW can boost the maximize the generator's capability with generator support mode.

I can't find installation manuals that describe how Guardian generators interface with start controls and external (non-kit) transfer switches.

Are these generators too specialized for this application? Do I need a dumb generator that has start/stop signal inputs? I know I can order these generators without transfer switches or the Nexus power management systems... but can't find any data on how to use them without these parts.

Looking at either the 8kW or 11kW Generac Guardian. Not thrilled about their Ecogen 6kW model with it's belt drive and $1600 premium cost.

Comments

  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,925 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW6048 with AGS: can it start a Generac Guardian emergency standby generator

    I'm off grid with 10kW Generac, but I went off grid only recently. Works fine so far.

    The old ones, with Nexus controller, could be converted to 2-wire start. The new ones, with Evolution controller, can be converted too but I don't know where to connect wires. You will need to find this information somewhere.

    Once it's converted to a 2-wire start, you can start it with AGS. Most of them come with an automatic transfer switch. You can use it - Generac will switch it as needed. This makes for smooth transfers. However, with XW6048, you do not need the transfer switch to wire it in.
  • solarcrawfishsolarcrawfish Registered Users Posts: 12
    Re: Xantrex XW6048 with AGS: can it start a Generac Guardian emergency standby generator

    Thanks for the advice. I was trying to find an install manual for the new Evolution based models. I see that I can order one without the transfer or management system, but I really need to find some data that says the genset will work without this gear. Generac's website responds with model/serial number not found when I search for the listed model number of the new Evolution based units.
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,925 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW6048 with AGS: can it start a Generac Guardian emergency standby generator
    Thanks for the advice. I was trying to find an install manual for the new Evolution based models. I see that I can order one without the transfer or management system, but I really need to find some data that says the genset will work without this gear. Generac's website responds with model/serial number not found when I search for the listed model number of the new Evolution based units.

    It will.

    When I was ordering, HD has very cheap Generacs. So, the system without transfer switch woul be more expensive.

    Lots of good things come with the transfer switch. I used their wires, conduit, junction box, breakers. If you decide you don't need some of that, you can sell them on eBay.

    I decided to use the transfer switch functionality in my system, so I kept the core too.
  • ldiorioldiorio Solar Expert Posts: 47 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW6048 with AGS: can it start a Generac Guardian emergency standby generator
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    I'm off grid with 10kW Generac, but I went off grid only recently. Works fine so far.

    The old ones, with Nexus controller, could be converted to 2-wire start. The new ones, with Evolution controller, can be converted too but I don't know where to connect wires. You will need to find this information somewhere.

    Once it's converted to a 2-wire start, you can start it with AGS. Most of them come with an automatic transfer switch. You can use it - Generac will switch it as needed. This makes for smooth transfers. However, with XW6048, you do not need the transfer switch to wire it in.

    very interested in your comments on gen support

    with a generac and transfer switch how do you wire the gen to the inverter and keep the AC1 and AC2 separate--when the generac starts up and switches the xfer switch its going to send power to the AC1 looking like the grid has come back on

    i can understand using the inverter as a transfer switch but don't know how to use a whole house transfer switch with an inverter and AGS

    thanks
    hope you can give me some help in understanding this
    lou
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,925 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW6048 with AGS: can it start a Generac Guardian emergency standby generator
    ldiorio wrote: »
    very interested in your comments on gen support

    with a generac and transfer switch how do you wire the gen to the inverter and keep the AC1 and AC2 separate--when the generac starts up and switches the xfer switch its going to send power to the AC1 looking like the grid has come back on

    i can understand using the inverter as a transfer switch but don't know how to use a whole house transfer switch with an inverter and AGS

    thanks
    hope you can give me some help in understanding this
    lou

    When Generac starts, it sends a signal through read and white wires to the transfer switch, so the switch operates. When the generator stops, about a minute before shutdown, it removes the signal, so the switch operates in other direction. This happens regardless of the method of the start - either disconnect of the power, or closing contacts for 2-wire start.

    You can use it as you see fit. I had it one time switching between grid and generator on AC1. Then, I decided to use it between generator and AC2 of the inverter, which gives me abrupt switching and automatic cooldown. I do not have AGS.

    It is also possible to use it to switch output between inverter and generator.

    Or, if you do not want the transfer switch controlled by the generator, you can control it by yourself. 12V applied between white and blue wire will move it to generator position. When removed, it'll switch back to the grid position.

    One caution. The transfer switch is power by AC. Transfer to generator is powered by the generator. Transwer to grid is powered by the grid. So, you need to make sure that there's a power on contats that you're switching.
  • ldiorioldiorio Solar Expert Posts: 47 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW6048 with AGS: can it start a Generac Guardian emergency standby generator
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    When Generac starts, it sends a signal through read and white wires to the transfer switch, so the switch operates. When the generator stops, about a minute before shutdown, it removes the signal, so the switch operates in other direction. This happens regardless of the method of the start - either disconnect of the power, or closing contacts for 2-wire start.

    You can use it as you see fit. I had it one time switching between grid and generator on AC1. Then, I decided to use it between generator and AC2 of the inverter, which gives me abrupt switching and automatic cooldown. I do not have AGS.

    It is also possible to use it to switch output between inverter and generator.

    Or, if you do not want the transfer switch controlled by the generator, you can control it by yourself. 12V applied between white and blue wire will move it to generator position. When removed, it'll switch back to the grid position.

    One caution. The transfer switch is power by AC. Transfer to generator is powered by the generator. Transwer to grid is powered by the grid. So, you need to make sure that there's a power on contats that you're switching.


    thanks for the info
    have been trying to get this type of info on how the gen with a whole house transfer switch would work

    since i have not yet purchased an inverter yet do you think the Radian and Magum 4448e has the same functiuonality as your XW6048
    Based on your experience with this --what inverter would you buy--my priorty is for a solar system with battery backup-i don't need to sell to the grid

    lou
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,925 ✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW6048 with AGS: can it start a Generac Guardian emergency standby generator
    ldiorio wrote: »
    since i have not yet purchased an inverter yet do you think the Radian and Magum 4448e has the same functiuonality as your XW6048
    Based on your experience with this --what inverter would you buy--my priorty is for a solar system with battery backup-i don't need to sell to the grid

    I only have experience with XW, and it works really well in off-grid situation. It seems to be reliable. Most importantly (at least for me off-grid) is that it is very efficient. It has two inputs, AC2 which I use for Generac, and AC1 which I wired for small Champion generator in case Generac fails.

    Both Magnum and Radian can handle generators.

    I considered Magnum before I bought XW, and there were reports of it switching too slow between inverting and generator (killing computers, flickering etc.), So I did't buy it. There are people on the forum with Magnums.

    Radian is supposed to be very good inverter, but it is very new and there are very few people who have any experience with it.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW6048 with AGS: can it start a Generac Guardian emergency standby generator
    ldiorio wrote: »
    ....since i have not yet purchased an inverter yet do you think the Radian and Magum 4448e has the same functiuonality as your XW6048
    Based on your experience with this --what inverter would you buy--....

    If I had it to do over again, I'd get the XW 6048 again. Incredibly robust. beefy charger circuit, beefy inverter.

    caveats : the fan can be noisy, and the inverter can produce 120Hz audible hum - OK in a garage, bad on a wall near a bedroom.

    And I'd get the ComBox before the SCP. However, the SCP does a few things the combox does not do, so I have both.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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