While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

BB. · September 2013

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

Remember, he is at 230 VAC 50 Hz--So the maximum output of his eu2000i is ~6.75 amps.

And, I would probably start with the inverter/charger set to 5-6 amps and see how it works.... 5 amps max continuous draw at 230 VAC is probably "comfortable" for your Honda... Batteries are a tough load for any genset--Especially when you can program the charge controller for an arbitrary AC load. If you programmed the charger and got ~6.75 amps AC (near 1,600 VA rated) for hours on end--The consumer grade genset will probably not have a very long life.

Starting with a minimum derating of 0.8 would be where I would begin if I had many hours of charging ahead.

-Bill

Blackcherry04 · September 2013

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

BB. wrote: »

Remember, he is at 230 VAC 50 Hz--So the maximum output of his eu2000i is ~6.75 amps.

And, I would probably start with the inverter/charger set to 5-6 amps and see how it works.... 5 amps max continuous draw at 230 VAC is probably "comfortable" for your Honda... Batteries are a tough load for any genset--Especially when you can program the charge controller for an arbitrary AC load. If you programmed the charger and got ~6.75 amps AC (near 1,600 VA rated) for hours on end--The consumer grade genset will probably not have a very long life.

Starting with a minimum derating of 0.8 would be where I would start if I had many hours of charging ahead.

-Bill

OPPS, your right, In that case I'd use 3 amps to charge. 6 amps @ 230 V would be a huge stress, not a doubt. After having blown up the engine in mine twice, I am a little gun shy these days.

Deleted original post and updated to 230 V @ 50hz

Sounds like a good plan. I'd wait till it settles down and charging then switch the ECO to on at 3 amps output. If you hear it lugging or varying the throttle a lot you could turn it back off. It'll use about half the fuel with it on ( 7 hrs a gallon for me ) and you won't be making power your not using.

3 Amps @ 230 V output seems like it would be a sweet spot on the EU 2000 with the ECO on, I put about 20 hrs on mine over the weekend. It makes the charging a little slower, but seems to work out better. If you only have a refrigerator as a load, you'd probably be able to keep it on. The only issue there is if it goes into a defrost cycle. Your Inverter should reduce the ACin amps and charger if that would happen.

Surfpath · September 2013

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

Blackcherry04 wrote: »

3 Amps @ 230 V output seems like it would be a sweet spot on the EU 2000 with the ECO on, I put about 20 hrs on mine over the weekend. It makes the charging a little slower, but seems to work out better. If you only have a refrigerator as a load, you'd probably be able to keep it on. The only issue there is if it goes into a defrost cycle. Your Inverter should reduce the ACin amps and charger if that would happen.

Well, the spouse did an SG for me and she got 1.225 (~70%)? I am a little surprised/skeptical since we normally start the day at 65%. But it doesn't really change anything since we still need a bulk charge. I am still thinking about doing it tonight since it looks 2 b rainy tomorrow. Thanks for the advice about the lower charge amperage (3), which will also suit eco mode.

mike95490 · September 2013

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

honda eu2000i, AFIK, is a 120VAC genset, unless I missed a transformer somewhere.

Blackcherry04 · September 2013

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

mike95490 wrote: »

honda eu2000i, AFIK, is a 120VAC genset, unless I missed a transformer somewhere.

Bill was pointing out that there is a 230V @50 hz sold elsewhere, I am guessing. I have seen it posted that there is, I have no personal knowledge though.

BB. · September 2013

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

I am guessing it is called the Honda eu20i

http://www.buywright.co.nz/generators.html

-Bill

Surfpath · September 2013

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

As above...."EU20i Honda briefcase genny"

Same Honda briefcase, different voltage (230) & hz (50).

Since I'm borrowing it I want to make sure I set it up right.

Blackcherry04 · September 2013

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

Surfpath wrote: »

As above...."EU20i Honda briefcase genny"

Same Honda briefcase, different voltage (230) & hz (50).

Since I'm borrowing it I want to make sure I set it up right.

I'd try it at 3 Amps and see how it does. I have Outback equipment and what you see on the Mate is not all that accurate anyway. Some times it jump 200 watts one way or the other. If I have the charger set at 5 amps it'll show 7 amps coming in.

vtmaps · September 2013

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

Surfpath wrote: »

So my proposed charging routine will be as follows:
Turn off the "AC OUT" breaker on the Flexpower panel (ie so that no house loads are drawing).

Make sure the "AC IN" breaker is turned off & attach the "AC IN" wires to the generator (same as I used for the Yamaha).

Make sure ECO is turned off on the Honda

Go to the charger control screen no the mate and program in the 6amps charge rate

Select generator charger "ON"

Start the genny

Flip the AC IN breaker so that the FX can pick up the feed and start charging.

One more thing... on your mate go to the SETUP screen and scroll down to generator current and set it to 6 amps (or whatever the honda can handle). You probably have the generator current set to whatever your yamaha could handle. Note: this is not the same as the charging current which has been discussed.

Also, you can use the eco throttle on the honda... the outback ramps up slowly enough to not bog down the honda.

--vtMaps

Blackcherry04 · September 2013

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

vtmaps wrote: »

One more thing... on your mate go to the SETUP screen and scroll down to generator current and set it to 6 amps (or whatever the honda can handle). You probably have the generator current set to whatever your yamaha could handle. Note: this is not the same as the charging current which has been discussed.

Also, you can use the eco throttle on the honda... the outback ramps up slowly enough to not bog down the honda.

--vtMaps

VT is correct, it kind of got lost in the 230V @50 hz discussion. Setting the ACin amp limit is as important as setting the charging amp limit. The ACin limits the total amps that the Inverter can place on the generator with charging and any pass through load. In this case you could set the charger at 3 amps and the ACin limit at 5 Amps and give yourself 2 amps to run the Refrigerator on pass through. Lets say the refrigerator went into defrost cycle, then the inverter would cut the charger back while it defrosts and then go back to charging up to 3 amps and the ECO throttle would take care of the generator power output.

Let's add one other Inverter Option, If you had a Inverter with Generator / Grid Support and you set the ACin limit at 5 amps. If you loaded the system with a 8 amp load the generator would contribute 5 amps and the inverter would reverse from charging and contribute 3 amps to the load for a total system output of the 8 amp load. When the load dropped, it would drop back to charging and it's 5 amp limit. On a small system / small generator, it works great if your making like a pot of coffee or using a microwave, it takes care of it's self, otherwise it would slam the generator and blow it out.
.

Surfpath · September 2013

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

Thanks blackcherry and VTMapps for your posts about setting a charging rate as well as an AC in limit. I just thought I had to set a charging rate.

A small update: I have not been at home long enough to set everything up and run the genny. Busy times. But what I did was turn off the fridge overnight and then plug it in early yesterday morning for a few hours. During the day SG's went to 1.250 & now today is sunny, so we should be to 100% soon.

Yes, based on my past experience with the Yamaha, I am slightly hesitant to set up charging on this loaned generator. It is very challenging to get anything repaired here. But your advice will help me when I get 3+ days of rain and cloud and have to use a genny again. I guess for now I have 'gennyphobia'.

I also confirmed that the wife's SG was right, we somehow only went to a low of 1.225-1.200, (60%) so no big deal. That's why you design a system with a day or so of reserve, right?

Surfpath · August 2014

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

So, an update on the 'generator at the dealer' saga. No activity for over a year so I started stirring things up again. They still did not get the service manual, but for the first time the mechanics started looking at the unit.

I was shown an electronic board (I think this is what's called the "control unit") and between two of the little embedded "diodes" (they called them that), there was a little crack. They said the 'control panel' is no good and it would cost me $1,800us to replace.

When I asked if they were sure this was all that needs repairing, the mechanic told me he feels that should be all, since the engine started before fine. It was just that the AC light went out and it stopped making AC current.

I realize that I have few facts for anyone on this board to really help me with, but I am pretty down over the whole event. I will meet with the dealer owner tomorrow.

Any suggestions? Could there be more trouble, not just the board? I was a few months out of warrantee when this happened (14 months ago).

I'll try to take photos of the board and the tiny hairline crack (I could see no other damage or burn marks, just this little crack).

Ironically I was able to find the supplementary service manual on line tonight, as well as another similar Yamaha service manual (smaller model) here.

Blackcherry04 · August 2014

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

Surfpath wrote: »

So, an update on the 'generator at the dealer' saga. No activity for over a year so I started stirring things up again. They still did not get the service manual, but for the first time the mechanics started looking at the unit.

I was shown an electronic board (I think this is what's called the "control unit") and between two of the little embedded "diodes" (they called them that), there was a little crack. They said the 'control panel' is no good and it would cost me $1,800us to replace.

You must be a patient person, I'd be on Yamaha USA's backside like white on rice.

Cariboocoot · August 2014

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

$1,800 would buy a new generator. Even in Canada.

mike95490 · August 2014

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

between two of the little embedded "diodes" (they called them that), there was a little crack

If it's not a multi-layer PWB (printed wiring board) and only one or 2 cracks, you can repair it with a wire soldered in place of the broken trace.

Surfpath · September 2014

Re: While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

mike95490 wrote: »

If it's not a multi-layer PWB (printed wiring board) and only one or 2 cracks, you can repair it with a wire soldered in place of the broken trace.

Hi Mike,
You give me some hope. I'll try to get some photos today.

Earlier in my thread I described the small trail smoke that accompanied the shutdown event. I doubt a tiny crack between 2 diodes wouldn't result in this. Anyway, should have more soon.

While charging batts - Possible Genny overload - Chris O?

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