Hybrid Cars

Re: Hybrid Cars

The battery cycling in a hybrid (like my Prius) is so short that there is very little battery loss. More so than the regen, the main gain provided by the hybrid is the electric assist makes it possible for the engine to run almost all the time in its efficiency "sweet spot". Going up a hill or accelerating, the electric allows the engine to work easy, and then going down the other side, you coast and the engine often turns off. Plus, the Prius has an amazing true continuously variable transmission that is highly efficient. Check it out on youtube. In addition, my Prius is souped up with extra Li-Ion batteries, which are externally charged and boost my milage up to 60mpg in spite of my hilly area. In flat areas, it can get into the 70's for the first 30 miles. That being said, is it cost effective? No, but I don't care, I just hate going to gas stations, and funding everything they stand for. My biggest aggravation is following around all the drivers trying so save gas by going slow.

Re: Hybrid Cars

We have a pair of Chevy EREV Volts, while not really a hybrid in the generally know sense. In general we don't buy much gas, like one 5-7 gallon fill per year, unless we drive more than 40ish miles. At 40 miles the engine kicks in to run a generator so even slightly longer trips use minimal fuel. I did drive mine to Vegas @ 65-70 mph and burned about 15 gallons round trip for about a 40 mpg rate of burn when moving on the generator.

So far both the wife and I went one year on a tank and the car forced a a stale fuel burn and refill. We charge them off our grid tie solar. SO far we have seen no battery degradation for the range.

BTW I replaced a 6.0 liter CTSv that was lucky to get 17-20 mpg.

Saves us a huge amount of gas.

BTW
The wife's 2011 (ecosister) is 687 mpg!!!
My 2012 (Red-Rider) is at 519 mpg because of the trip to Vegas!!!
http://www.voltstats.net/Stats/GroupDetails/14

Re: Hybrid Cars

I've had a Gen 3 Prius for 2 years now and here are some thoughts...

BB is right about short trips, the hybrid fuel economy suffers but it's still darn good compared to many other cars. Also cold weather is the enemy but it hurts all cars. The effects of both short trips and cold weather are a little more pronounced in hybrids. On the flip side the fuel economy in mild weather can be amazing. When you average it all out a Toyota hybrid will save a lot of fuel for most people with average driving habits. If you drive 2 miles per day then it won't save you much gas because you weren't using much to start with.

In 2 years of mixed driving and 2 different drivers we are averaging 52 mpg in the U.S. Our fuel economy varies from the 30's on short trips in cold weather to 60 with warm temps and no ac. But again the average is what matters and most people are very happy with their fuel savings if that was their goal to begin with.

Don't get hung up on battery efficiency. The battery is there to store and release small amounts of energy. The hybrids use a more efficient gas engine which has less torque than a standard engine. The electric motor and battery help to make up for the lack of engine torque when accelerating. When on the highway the battery doesn't do a lot and the efficient engine does it's thing to still give good fuel economy. Hybrids focus on not wasting a lot of energy and most of them do a very good job at it. If you hit the brakes they store energy in the battery, if you are coasting the gas engine shuts off, there is electric power steering, electric ac, electric water pump, no accessory belt(at least on the Prius anyway, not sure about the Auris). So again the battery is a very important part of a hybrid but it's more of an energy buffer and booster than anything else. I think the Prius has a 1.4 kwh pack give or take and the car is programmed to stay between 40 and 80 percent charge level to give it a long lifespan which in most cases is has proven to do.

Re: Hybrid Cars

Brianellul wrote: »

Thanks BB for your feedback. The car I'm looking at is the Toyota hybid Auris (for the european market). I live on a small island and therefore there are no highways however it's pretty congested with traffic

All these Prius owners, and no one addressed your driving conditions. Sounds idea for a hybrid! They really shine in stop and go traffic when compared to gas only cars.

So I was going to pop in and say a sensible car driven reasonably gets me 48mpg on the Hwy and 35 in town and 30 in my little hilly 20mph community. Toyota Echo. In shop for the first time at 200K for 2 new coils and the serpentine belt. I change my own oil & filters. Might look into an electric since I would think it would be the ultimate congested traffic vehicle, though the A/C would be problematic.

Re: Hybrid Cars

Hardway, the best mileage for your dollar is a tiny car if you can put up with all the discomforts that entails. Maybe for commuting that is acceptable, but if you want a nicer, midsize car at a reasonable cost, the Prius is the best bang for your buck. Most other hybrids have very small batteries and don't have near the mileage and the Volt has better mileage but at much higher price. The Prius will do quite well on your terrain. Its battery is good for about 5 miles of up or down hill before it runs out of capacity and reverts to engine only mode. The way I see it, you are sending $225/month out of the country to places that don't like you.

Re: Hybrid Cars

thehardway wrote: »

would you all please elaborate a little on the type of terrain you drive....

I live in Maine. Mostly level-ish land. Roads tend to follow alongside rivers, and were historically cow paths. Few of these roads were surveyed in straight lines or to follow a grid pattern.

Gentle rolling hills, that I guess from valley to peak is no more than 100 elevation difference.

My road is a river road, so it is subject to a lot of fog. When the ground/pavement is below freezing then any fog will freeze onto the pavement making 'black ice'.

In my township we do not use salt on the roads, in fact the majority of towns in this state refuse to use salt. We 'plow' to scrap excess snow off, and otherwise to keep the ice/snow-pack smooth for driving across. Sometimes they scatter dirt on the pavement, in the thought that dirt may help traction.

Speed limits are mostly set at 45mph. Though in urban neighborhoods it will go down to 25mph.

The interstate is posted at 75mph.

Re: Hybrid Cars

Skippy wrote: »

I read thru all the posts here, and did not see it.. . did I miss it ?

Nobody here has mentioned replacing the battery in the car. If the battery lasts for 5 years, then you would have to take the cost of the battery into your "gas savings" . . you could buy alot of gas for the price of a battery. . . (5 - 10 K $ ?)

8 year warranty on the main battery.

Re: Hybrid Cars

inetdog wrote: »

US Federal law and some state laws do require a pretty long warranty on the battery. Some time around the 2005 model year Toyota started using a battery pack design on the Prius which allowed replacement of individual groups of cells to reduce warranty expense. They were doing a 100% replacement of too many battery packs.

But once the warranty is up, you are on your own. Assuming that the replacement battery pack is even available when you need it. :-(

Yep Chevy does 8 year 100 mile on the Volt, and in California on the the HOV lane cars is giving 10 year 150,000 mile warranty. Replacement cost looks like about $3,000 from the price lists, and several cars have over 50K miles on them now, I have yet to hear of any complete replacements for age related issues. There have a a couple that had some sort of error faults and they were pulled and replaced by GM to take to the lab for evaluations, I think mostly for Battery Management issues. Chevy was very conservative only using the middle 10-10.5kWh of the 16kWh battery, charge to 80% and discharge to like 20% while using a liquid cooling system to manage the temperatures to guarantee the battery only sees a health environment. They also limited the recharge rate to 3300 watts continuous so a recharge takes 4+ hours and a total of 13.3 kWh to get its full charge. In my Phoenix garage I can hear the BMS kick in about every 4 hours to cool the battery off during a 110+F day, drawing 800 watts from the wall charger to operate.

Like I said in the Boeing thread, they should look to GM for battery management. A very well engineered system IMHO.

Re: Hybrid Cars

Organic Farmer wrote: »

8 year warranty on the main battery.

With all the discussion going on about electric cars, I thought I would make it a well rounded discussion on the pros and cons. . .;)

Re: Hybrid Cars

We have driven one coast to coast several time, always averaging jut about 50 (us) mpg. My brother has one in Boston and gets a bit over fifty over the life of the car, and my sister owns one in the PAC NW and she get right at 52 averge over 75k miles.

Terrain doesnt have too much effect in the net, but driving style has a lot!


Tony

Re: Hybrid Cars

My brother that had a prius lives in Raleigh NC. Some warning lights come on and he took it to the toyota dealer and $4000.00 was the toyota dealer quote for a new battery. If it were me I would have checked with another toyota dealer instead of trading at a loss for another used toyota. He was here in Pa. visiting a couple months before and I rode in it a couple of times. It still looked like new condition and rode like a new car. In N Carolina the cars don,t rust like they do here in Pa. If I knew he was going to do that I would have bought it off him. You still could drive it. Somehow I think that toyota dealer took him in. solarvic

Re: Hybrid Cars

icarus wrote: »

...
Terrain doesnt have too much effect in the net, but driving style has a lot!
Tony

Very true. With me behind the wheel the mpg meter goes up, with my wife behind the whell it drops like a rock.

Re: Hybrid Cars

Well, I can,t believe my brother didn,t do any research. The dealer really depreciated the prius when he traded in at the same dealer. So that dealer probably made a real killing on him as I think they make more money on excelent condition used cars than what they make on new. solarvic

Re: Hybrid Cars

Car dealers make money on EVERY side of the deal, the initial sale, the trade, the resale of the trade, the depreciation of book value, the quick fix of problems, and the service department. What is stunning is how often they go out of business given the profit centers built into the business. I guess the overhead must be too high!

My rule of vehicles is, buy good used cars ~3-5 years old, from non rust markets and move them if I have to, then take care of them and drive them forever. I am currently driving a 99 Subaru bought for 55% of new, with 34k miles on it. I have driven it 150k, and with the exception of a starter, a EGR, timing belt, and rotors and pads, tires, fluids and filters, it still goes strong. The 45% price differential between the new and used has more than payed for all the service, service that I also would have had to do in the same miles on a new one.

Tony