Questions about induction cooktops.
solarvic
Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
I just bought an induction 1 burner cooktop to make use of some of my excess solal generation. Anyone here have any experience with them and the cookware needed? They sent a magnet with it to check if the cookware is compatable. Suitable cookware is cast iron pots, magnetic stainless steel pot, magnetic stainless steel/enamel, iron/steel frying pan, iron tray/grille and iron enamelware plus (18/0). Non suitable is non magnetic s/s 18/10 and 16/8. I have a stockpot that is s/s 18/10 but is magnetic only on the bottom. Sides are non magnetic. I read somewhere on my research that the sides of the pan also need to be magnetic. So I deducted that this stockpot probably won,t be hot anywhere except on the bottom. Guess I probably will need to get a new magnetic stockpot. Anyone have any suggestions what brand pots to buy? If you have one of these cooktops, Do you like it? Mine is Max Burton model 6000. I was going to buy one of those NUWAVE ones advertised on tv. Buy 1st one get 2nd one free for extra shipping charges. Thier website sells you the 1st one when you register the credit card and you have to go to second page to pay shipping charges for the 2nd one and go to the 3rd page to get the free pans for only paying shipping charges. Each page you go too yje shipping charges double. I got discusted and deleted the whole mess and went to Amazon. :Dsolarvic:D
Comments
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Re: Questions about induction cooktops.Sides are non magnetic. I read somewhere on my research that the sides of the pan also need to be magnetic. So I deducted that this stockpot probably won,t be hot anywhere except on the bottom. Guess I probably will need to get a new magnetic stockpot.
I do not see any good reason that the sides of the pot need to be magnetic too. Only the bottom is being heated by a conventional stove, and the heat is conducted from there to the sides if that is important. But the liquid in the pot will convey heat from place to place just fine too.
If the magnetic part is only the bottom, or only a layer incorporated in the bottom, the heat transfer to the pot will not be as fast, but will not result in wasted power (or at most only a small fraction of what would be lost running it without a pot on the burner at all.)SMA SB 3000, old BP panels. -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
From wiki:
For nearly all models of induction cooktop, a cooking vessel must be made of a ferromagnetic metal, or placed on an interface disk which enables non-induction cookware to be used on induction cooking surfaces.
Induction cooking surfaces work well with any pans with a high ferrous metal content at the base. Cast iron pans and any black metal or iron pans will work on an induction cooking surface. Stainless steel pans will work on an induction cooking surface if the base of the pan is a magnetic grade of stainless steel. If a magnet sticks well to the sole of the pan, it will work on an induction cooking surface.4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
My wife bought an Electrolux range with a full induction cooktop on it:
Attachment not found.
She also bought new cookware for it. It is magnetic stainless steel made by Kenmore and the pots all have copper bands around the bottom of the sides to transfer heat to the sides better.
One of the advantages of using induction cooking is that you have instant control of temperature, and the temperature can be set very precisely. Heavy cookware like cast iron is slower to respond to changes in the temperature setting because the mass of the iron holds heat. Therefore my wife prefers her stainless cookware over the cast iron for most things. But she still makes pancakes, grilled cheese and such on her cast iron griddle instead of using stainless because the cast iron is better for those things.
Most cookware that is compatible with induction says so right on the box or on the cookware itself.
We run the range's induction cooktop with no problem at all with the inverter, without using generator support. The large Litz Coil is 2.3 kW draw on high power with a cast iron griddle on it. With a magnetic stainless steel pot it draw about 1.9 kW. The smaller Litz Coils are 1.6 kW on high power with cast iron and about 1.3 kW with magnetic stainless.
Our range's cooktop has sensors in it that turn off the "element" if the pan is removed from it. And the sensors detect the size and shape of the cooking vessel, and how magnetic it is, and adjusts the power and magnetic field accordingly to what the cooking vessel will handle for maximum heating. The sensors are able to detect how much eddy current will flow in the cooking vessel. It also knows the difference between cooking pots, pans and griddles and other ferromagnetic objects somehow. When she first got it it was a great toy for me and I was going to try heating various items with it but found out it is smarter than I am and wouldn't let me heat some things I brought in from the shop to test on it.
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Chris -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
Chris. That looks like a preety nice range you have. Glad you answered my post as I knew you had this range and probably would have a sugestion of a good brand to buy. I have a gas well so have a gas range ect. I added a few more solar panels so I can use more air conditioning and now I am getting too much power in my account. I bought a 110 volt 1 burner portable induction hotplate to make use of some excess power I need to use. I thank everyone else for thier imput. :Dsolarvic:D -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
Well, I can cook water on it
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Chris -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
I have two of maxburton #6200. Wife and I likes them. They sit on top of the stove. If power goes out we can still heat water for coffee. On lowest setting (1). 600 watt inverter But we like the cast iron skillets the best. But that is a matter of preference -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
Just curious if anyone understands what the diffence is in temperature setting, I, too, was checking out the NuWave site, and yes you end up paying $170-180 for 1 + a "Free' one. I like them since they claime to have something like 50 temurature settings, but in their FAQ's they are grouped in wattage used, something like low-medium, medium, and medium-high all use 800 watts, curious how that works. Most of the ones I've looked at have 7-10 heat settings. Just curious how that works. I have mostly salad master and an old cast iron pan, a SS stock pot that is magnetic, only a SS steamer that isn't and it's not been used (It'll make a nice Christmas gift...lol)Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites, Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
- Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects. -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
Well that was a really neat demo Chris, but that humm! It would drive me insane. Is it always present when the cooktop is functioning or was it some sort of interference affecting your recording device?
Ralph -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
Our range top adjusts the temperature by varying the voltage to the Litz Coils and they pull less power on lower temp settings. The lower voltage weakens the magnetic field, and higher voltage makes the field stronger. The magnetic field is VERY strong - my gauss meter shows up to .46 Tesla on the higher settings - equivalent to the magnetic field strength of neo magnets at 1" air gap.
Ralph - our range top has a Power Boost setting for boiling water really fast - the Power Boost setting will go for up to 8 minutes and then it automatically reduces to the normal "HI" power setting. The cooking vessel and coil hum on the Power Boost setting. You are creating an intense magnetic field around the cooking vessel that builds and collapses with the current frequency (120 times per second with 60 Hz AC current). That magnetic field causes eddy currents to flow in the ferromagnetic cooking vessel and the eddy currents heat it. It is pretty much the same way that eddy brakes work on trains and roller coasters and such.
The hum is only noticeable on the Power Boost setting. One the "burner" power is lowered to normal "HI" power, the hum goes away. But on the Power Boost setting I have tested the magnetic field and it is VERY powerful - approaching the air gap strength of the most powerful permanent magnets known to man.
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Chris -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
We installed a Whirlpool drop in induction cooktop when we did our kitchen. We like it very much for all the above mentioned reasons. Faster, cleaner, more efficient, etc. Puts less heat into the house as it is all in the pan making working around the stove much cooler and lessens summer AC loads. As for the pans, the sides do not need to be magnetic. Only the bottom portion that contacts the cooktop. Your stockpot shoudl work fine if the magnet sticks to the bottom. Just understand, the more iron/magnetic steel it contains the more efficient the transfer of heat.
Many companies make a "bonded" construction pan (that's what the Kenmore ones are with the stainless bottom and the copper ring on the side.) We have the kenmore pans and they work great, bought the set on a Black Friday event and picked up a whole set for under 100.00. Induction pans tend to be of higher quality and construction than non induction. Forget using the cheap non-stick coated aluminum pans from walmart. T-fal makes a full line of induction pans and they are sold at Target they start at about 29.00. They also have induction ready pans at Bed Bath and beyond and sometime you can find high quality pans at T.J. Max that are deeply discounted.
It is hard to find a good quality reasonable priced teflon free nonstick frying pan in induction if you are FPOA/teflon free. I had to search for some time to find a good one. Finally found J.A. Henckels makes one with the ceramic nonstick coating and they had it on amazon reasonably priced.
The temp control issue varies by manufacturer. Ours is a whirlpool and it has 9 temp settings, the GE profile I believe has more. We find 11 to be quite adequate though. They respond so much quicker than gas, or other forms of electric. I have been told there are only about 3 coil manufacturers and they manufacture to spec for the different brands.
The buy one get one add on tv is a rip off. You can pick up counter top induction "hobs" for a lot less on ebay. Don't get sucked in by the pans, they are low quality pans.
My wife has been hesitant to use her cast iron cookwear on it for fear of scratching the surface, the newspaper idea is great and I will have to tell her about it. -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.thehardway wrote: »As for the pans, the sides do not need to be magnetic. Only the bottom portion that contacts the cooktop.
I should mention that they also make a ferromagnetic plate that you can put on your induction top so you can use non-magnetic cookware on it. The induction coil heats the plate, which in turn heats the pan. I think that reduces the efficiency of the cooktop. But is is a "workaround" so you can use your non-induction compatible cookware with it.
We got one of those plates but my wife has never used it. She threw out any cookware that had teflon coatings in it, and she also threw out her aluminum pans and pots that she had, and bought all new for the induction cooktop. The Kenmore cookware doesn't have non-stick coatings in it. But she uses butter or some other stuff to prevent things from sticking anyway, and she actually prefers that. You don't get the localized "hot spots" in your cookware with induction that you get with gas or conventional electric so burning on the bottom or sides of the pan is less of a problem with induction simply because the heating is even and can be instantly controlled.
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Chris -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
It sounds like the range is ramping the coil current up once it detects the presence of a pot. Do you know the reason for that? Is there a lot of magnetic pull on the cookware while it is on?ChrisOlson wrote: »Well, I can cook water on itSMA SB 3000, old BP panels. -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.It sounds like the range is ramping the coil current up once it detects the presence of a pot. Do you know the reason for that? Is there a lot of magnetic pull on the cookware while it is on?
Things like this intrigue me, so I have to test things on it, ya' know
As near as I can determine there is quite sophisticated electronics in that thing. I think the high end cooktops are going to have this, and the cheaper 120V plug-in ones are not as sophisticated. But what I've seen is that it draws zero power when no pan is present. When you place a pan on it it "samples" the size and shape and adjusts the magnetic field to fit it. You can see thru the ceramic/glass top with a powerful LED light and see the coils. The big coil has more than one winding in it and it has at least 12 wires going to it, and it's probably about 8-10" in diameter.
You can put two pots on it made of identical material - one big one and the other smaller. It will draw more amps from the inverter with the big pot on it than it will with the smaller one at the same power setting. And it takes it about two seconds to "evaluate" what you put on it to decide what to do about it. With my gauss meter and an empty pot I can detect the magnetic field strength inside the pot - but there is no reading outside the pot.
I know how it works, and induction cooking has been around for years. But how and what the electronics does in the cooktop we got remains somewhat of a mystery - mainly because if my wife catches me fooling around with it I'll get kicked out of the house for a couple days
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Chris -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
There wouldn't be, would there, since the orientation of the field is swapping 120 times per second? I've used my mom's induction range, and I didn't notice the pans sticking to it.It sounds like the range is ramping the coil current up once it detects the presence of a pot. Do you know the reason for that? Is there a lot of magnetic pull on the cookware while it is on? -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.There wouldn't be, would there, since the orientation of the field is swapping 120 times per second? I've used my mom's induction range, and I didn't notice the pans sticking to it.
No, there is no "pull". The magnetic field reverses polarity 120 times/sec and it is so fast that it does not pull or repel metal objects. The lines of flux in the magnet field moving thru the ferromagnetic cooking vessel causes eddy currents to flow - which in turn cause heat in the ferromagnetic material.
Interestingly, with permanent magnets you can induce eddy currents in aluminum and copper by simply moving the magnet past it - and you can physically feel the "drag" trying to move the magnet over a sheet of aluminum as an example. But aluminum and copper do not work with induction cooktops. If you place an aluminum pan on it, it will refuse to power up the coil.
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Chris -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
I wish I had a wife who would not let me cook! :-) I presume yours will not try to mess with your turbines and shop equipment? Or are you more tolerant of that kind of thing than she is?ChrisOlson wrote: »... because if my wife catches me fooling around with it I'll get kicked out of the house for a couple days
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ChrisSMA SB 3000, old BP panels. -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
It looks like I am going shopping for some ss cookware. I only have a 12 qt. stockpot and a tea kettle that I can use with my new toy. Sears and penn,ys is in the same mall in my area should have lots to choose from. Might try an enamel pan if I can. I thank all for the suggestions of what to buy and where to buy. I feel more confident that I will get something that works. :Dsolarvic:D -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.I wish I had a wife who would not let me cook! :-) I presume yours will not try to mess with your turbines and shop equipment? Or are you more tolerant of that kind of thing than she is?
Well, admittedly, I would probably become a bit concerned if I walked in the shop and saw my wife with a loaf of bread clamped in the mill vice on the Bridgeport. I'm sure she feels the same concern when I come walking in the kitchen carrying volt meter, ammeter, and gauss meter and head straight for her range.
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Chris -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.ChrisOlson wrote: »The lines of flux in the magnet field moving thru the ferromagnetic cooking vessel causes eddy currents to flow - which in turn cause heat in the ferromagnetic material.
I wonder just how accurate that description really is? Induction furnaces can be used with non-magnetic conductive materials, but perhaps the fact that with a ferro-magnetic mass of metal the resting magnetic field (and therefore the induced current) will be higher allows the use of lower coil currents?
An additional (maybe small) amount of heating will occur from hysteresis losses in the magnetic material itself.
An experiment you could run (when the wife is not around) to test this would be to use two almost identical steel or iron disks, one of which has radial slots cut into it to limit eddy currents as the field changes. Since the field orientation is vertical, that should have no effect on hysteresis losses. (But if the controls sense energy loss as well as magnetic field, the burner might try to deliver less power to the slotted disk???)SMA SB 3000, old BP panels. -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.It sounds like the range is ramping the coil current up once it detects the presence of a pot. Do you know the reason for that? Is there a lot of magnetic pull on the cookware while it is on?
The whole magnetism thing leaves a bit of a false impression. The coil merely induces a current in the pan by proximity to its electromagnetic field causing the Fe electrons in the pan to collide and heat up. It never magnetizes the pan or creates a pull. If the pan doesn't contain Fe then the elctrons are not excited. Similar in principle to a microwave oven except microwave is directional and it uses a different frequency which causes H20 molecules to excite.
Coils in mine do not work until they detect the presence of a magnetic pan of suitable size. A real small pan will not work on a larger "burner". The thing that really mystifies me about it, if you put a pan of water halfway over the burner, only half of the water will boil, you can even see the outline of the circle in the water that is boiling. Very localized effect. Sometimes pots will actually sing or squeal. I am told this might be a resonance in the pan or between layers in a bonded pan. A drop of water on the stove burner does nothing but put a pan on top of it and it will rapidly turn to steam and explode out from under the pan quite violently. Wipe pans off before placing on burner! No end to curious mind with this. -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.(But if the controls sense energy loss as well as magnetic field, the burner might try to deliver less power to the slotted disk???)
That's exactly what it does - already tested that. I even tried some turbine generator rotors on it - one with lightening holes milled in it and the other solid. It reduces the power (amp load on the inverter) with the disc with less steel mass in it due the lightening holes milled in it.
There has to be some sort of sensors in or near those Litz Coils. But I can't see them thru the ceramic/glass top with an LED light. I can only see what I believe to be 12 wires going to the big coil and 8 wires to the smaller ones.
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Chris -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.thehardway wrote: »The whole magnetism thing leaves a bit of a false impression. The coil merely induces a current in the pan by proximity to its electromagnetic field causing the Fe electrons in the pan to collide and heat up.
No, the eddy currents are actual electric currents in the pot, induced just like in a generator coil. Any current that flows has inductance so it creates its own magnetic field. The magnetic field created by the eddy current flowing in the pot is a repulsive current so it creates heat as it repels the magnetic lines of force that create it.
It is not even close to how a microwave works.
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Chris -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
Actually, it can use the coils themselves as perfectly good sensors, as long as it can detect the power factor of the current in the coils as well as the current to voltage ratio (inductance), which will be influenced by the presence of ferrous metal.ChrisOlson wrote: »There has to be some sort of sensors in or near those Litz Coils. But I can't see them thru the ceramic/glass top with an LED light. I can only see what I believe to be 12 wires going to the big coil and 8 wires to the smaller ones.
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Chris
A slotted disk and an continuous disk will have roughly the same effect on the inductance, but the one which supports greater eddy currents will increase the resistive component of the impedance (bring the power factor closer to 1.)SMA SB 3000, old BP panels. -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
After reading around a bit, this seems to be the correct answer:
http://home.howstuffworks.com/induction-cooktops4.htmWhile it's theoretically possible to make an induction cooktop that's compatible with other types of metal cookware, the industry isn't currently headed in that direction, primarily because the amount of energy required to do so would make the units inefficient. Remember, induction cooktops use the high resistance of iron to their advantage, converting a little current into a lot of heat -- highly conductive materials like copper or aluminum would require much higher frequencies to make their small resistances add up to much heat. With this in mind, some manufacturers have begun adding an iron plate to the bottom of their nonferrous cookware to allow them to work with induction cooktops.
One forum, the guy said he does induction for aluminum:It's an eletro-magnet. The field changes very quickly (20-30KHz) each cycle magnetises and demagnetises the pan, each cycle loses some energy - which goes into heating the food.
It is possible to heat aluminium with an inductor but it is less effective and needs a different frequency - I woked on a system that would heat coffee/ready meals with an Aluminium film inside the packaging and an inductor pad on the counter.
Some folks implied it is the magnetizing/reverse magnetizing of the ferrous metals. But, I believe it more the issue of low resistance of aluminum and copper pans that is the issue instead. The ferrous metals may simply be a quick and dirty check for the manufacturers (knocking non-ferrous stainless steels out of service--which may be less efficient anyway).
-BillNear San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.ChrisOlson wrote: ».... You don't get the localized "hot spots" in your cookware with induction that ....
Oh yes you can !
Well seasoned cast iron is pretty non-stick. Flax oil and about 6 seasoning cycles is what it takes to get the pan set up.
www.sherylcanter.com/wordpress/2010/01/a-science-based-technique-for-seasoning-cast-iron/Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
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Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
Well I've been shopping and NewEgg has a Tatung Induction Counter top induction Cooktop on sale for $50 with a pan and free shipping, has a 4 out of 5 eggs and lots of reviews. Sale ends today (of course) comes with a 'free pan' no extra shipping to pay..lol. Better reviews than their Rosewell which goes on sale every couple months for around $50.Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites, Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
- Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects. -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
Hmmm, Newegg.CA has same retail price w/ shipping but NO SALE on right now... darn
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
It doesn't show a promo code under the title?
I coppy and pasted it here, It doesn't show me signed in so I ssupect it's there, did you go to newegg from my link?
TATUNG TICT-1500W Induction Cook Top
+ $20 off w/ promo code EMCXVVW84, ends 2/23
Sorry I was thinking CA = california... might try thew code in Canada...Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites, Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
- Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects. -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
PWhit, put in a price alert request for $49.99. will see what comes up. no code option available.
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Re: Questions about induction cooktops.
Went shopping yesterday and bought my new stainless cookware at Macy,s. It is thier storebrand (belgique) and was on sale. Trying out the 8qt stew pot cooking a beef stew. I like the Max burton induction hotplate so far. Someone here posted a similar meter like the killowatt meter we all use. They have a battery so you don,t lose the info if you unplug it. If you are the poster of that I hope you can repost it. I would like to get a few of them to monitor permanently some power users. I tryed to put amazon link here but it also wanted to put my account info which I didn,t want public. Also I stumbled on this link that diaplays lots of different 12 vdc apliances that might interest sime. http://maxburtonappliances.com/ :Dsolarvic:D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFxiMbkOyeU
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