Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

Re: Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

Your cells seem to have spent a LOT of time undercharged, and sulfation may have already set in.

Shed some loads till you get them boosted back up. If you have a generator, run it for a hour or so, in the AM, before the solar kicks in, and you get the most amps for the fuel you burn. And if the batteries stay cool enough, hit the EQ button a second time, to try to save the batteries.

Re: Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

Tony, your going to have to get the manual out and do the Custom Battery settings in the SCP and set the EQ voltage. With Grid , you shouldn't have a problem. It will do a Full charge first , then start the EQ for the hour.

I thought maybe you were doing the EQ with the CC. Confused.......

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Re: Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

tonygcan wrote: »

Would you know how to set-up the XW4548 to equalise at a higher voltage and for longer hours?

XW will only equalize for 1 hour. So, you need to trick it. I did it by setting Float voltage to 64V (or whatever you want for equalizing) then started charging. Make sure that you select "3 Stage" charging too. As soon as it gets to "Float", you'll be equalizing. It will be doing this forever, so you need to stop it manually. You can do that by changing Float voltage back to what it was.

You can measure SG every hour. If it stops changing, you probably want to stop equalizing. Make sure to monitor battery temperature too. Batteries may overheat.

You say you added electrolyte by yourself. Did you measured it accurately? Did you stirr it before adding? If you put a slightly different amount of electrolyte into different cells, then topped with water, the SG in different cells will be different.

Re: Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

HI Tony,

Just trying to clearly understand a few things;

1. OK so Surrette shipped the batteries to AZ in a dry state, and shipped the electrolyte in separate containers??

2. You shipped these batteries still DRY to the Phillipines?

3. And then in December you added the Surrette supplied electrolyte to the battteries for the first time, and then you proceeded to follow the Surrette ACTIVATION insructions(??) -- which may be a bit difficult to do WITHOUT a Hydrometer(!).

4. Did that activation go as described in the Surrette Activation instructions?

5. You mentioned that the highest cells that you measured were 1.400-ish. Wat this a typo?? Did you mean one point four zero zero???

You do need to get these batteries fully charged, and then EQed. Since there is a single string of batteries, as I read it, without an external lower voltage batt charger, does not seem that breaking up the string and charging lowest batts separately would be possible, IMHO.

More Later, Vic

Re: Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

tonygcan wrote: »

Thank you North guy, Blackcherry and Vic, now I know how to trick the XW into equalizing.
Vic, it's exactly how you described it. My integrator is the one who added the electrolyte to the batteries and I wasn't around when he added them. I presume he did it correctly but since the values are so different from one cell to the other then it's entirely possible that the cells have different electrolyte levels.

Is there a way to correct this situation or if the levels are different am I doomed to have botched the process for my batteries forever?

There are 4-5 ways to deal with The Electrolyte , none easy. The first thing you need to do is to get them all up to the Maximum SG that you can get. Then you would have choices. Once the SG's no longer rise one could assume that all the sulfate has been removed from the surface of the plates. I wouldn't get to excited at this point.

1) You could dump it all out and add fresh with the correct SG.
2) You could dump it all out and re-mix what you have by adding pure Acid to raise it or Distilled water to lower it, then put it back in.
3) You could adjust whats in them by removing Electrolyte and adding distilled water to lower or adding Pure acid to raise the SG.
4) After all of the above your still going to have to see how they all balance out.

I'd keep on EQ'ing them and see what you can do and contact the person that filled them and see what they did. I still wish you had the equipment to do the lowest by them selves so you didn't have to abuse all 8 at the same time. You might check around and see if you can borrow a charger that can EQ at a lower voltage and do a couple at a time.

Re: Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

Hi Tony,

YES, you should check with the person who added the electrolyte to these batteries, and ask , "just how did you do this?" Preferably without any additional info, you just want to know the exact process.

During most full Absorption cycles, the electrolyte is fully mixed, BUT for the cells with low SG, there may be less complete mixing. After an EQ, there is a better chance of full mixing. Yes you could use your Hydrometer to remove some of the electrolyte from cells that seem too high in SG.

Never use ANYTHING BUT Distilled Water (preferably referred to as Steam Distilled, or made by Steam Distillation or similar).

Drinking Water is usually not distilled, as it can remove Minerals beneficial to humans. Use the absolute best water that you can find, as any residuals will remain inside the batteries forever, and some of these are harmful. Good Luck, Vic

Re: Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

Hopefully, the job was done correctly, you get your SGs all the same after good equalization, and you won't need to do changes.

The drinking water is usually not distilled. I tested drinking water sold around here and it contains 35 ppm of dissolved solids. You can ask the person who activated the batteries where to get distilled water.

Re: Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

Tony,

I am not coot, BUT, normally any charger that has a Bulk V setting would have it set to the Absorption V -- there are some exceptions, but this is the customary setting.

You may well need a longer Absorption and at a higher voltage now, while you are trying to get the battery's SG up. It is conceivable that 60 V may be OK for Absroption now, but that IS high, and would not normally be set that high for normal operation. Right now you DO need a long absorption stage, but later would expect your absorption V to be in the 58.5 ish volt range. Tha absorption time depends upon the Depth Of Discharge of the battery bank. You should be able to find a voltage and time for Absorb that averages in getting the battery fully charged several times per week or more often. You are on the Grid, so you may fully recharge the bank more often than that.

Would use Surrette's recommendations for Float V, (about 52.6 V the last I saw) and would make certain that the EQ voltage is at or above 62 V. Normally one would EQ a battery bank until the SGs stop rising, and continue for another 30 or so minutes. Of course, during very long EQs, battery temepratures can rise to a point where the EQ should be stopped and the batteries allowed to cool. Always monitor electrolyte levels before and during an EQ if it is long duration.

All of the noted voltages should be Temperature Compensated.

And, if you happen to add additional higher SG electrolyte to a battery that is not fully charged -- one with sulphate still on the plates -- you might never be able to get that sulphate off of the plates. The higher the SG of that cell/battery becomes, the more difficult it is to get the sulphates back into solution. If this happened, that cell/battery would loose capacity, which might never be recoverable.

EDIT: The Xantrex/Schneider XW stuff DOES have a Bulk V setting. Some do use this for a higher V Absorption just before the real Absorption stage starts. Most do not, and set this Bulk V to equal the Absorption V.

Opinions, Vic

Re: Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

Batteries are not necessarily 'new' from point you put in electrolyte. Most all batteries are built with a process that preforms plates at factory. This means the plates have been soaked with electrolyte.

For shipping, and several months of storage, the 'dry charge' batteries should be filled with distilled de-ionized water. This is drained out then electrolyte install upon installation. Overall, a real pain to do.

You do need equilization but don't over do it at one time. Watch the battery temp and don't let them get too hot. Monitor individual batteries and stop if one battery gets above 7.75 to 8 vdc as that battery will overheat. If there is too much voltage differential between batteries then break them up and match pairs as close as possible and charge with a 12 v charger to 15 vdc for equalizing. You need to equilize at 60 vdc for the full stack but watch individual battery voltage.

Re: Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

tonygcan wrote: »

Thank you all,
I am happy to report that all of the cells are now at 1.50 or higher. A BIG improvement from yesterday. Thank you for all the tips. I will adjust the charge controllers settings for now and reevaluate after a week or two.

I plan to equalize 2 more times but since it is noon time now I will wait until late afternoon to avoid getting the batteries too hot.

Congrats Tony, just stay on the road and don't run off in the weeds, you'll be fine. Batteries react to 3 things, Voltage, Time and Current, a change in one effects the other. Sg's are your constant, it's the home point you always want to return to.

Re: Corrective Equalization for newly installed Rolls batteries

petertearai wrote: »

Hi wayne, The fm80 will stop the eq if the battery temp gets to 50 deg, maybe the mx will also? I know too hot but at at least a safety stop.

Yes, I've heard the FM-80 has that feature, which is great. Unfortunately if the MX-60 does, I'm not aware of it. BTW the batt temp sensor IS installed, and was operational at the time.
Now in Summer I switch the MX to manual EQ and control it myself. Not a problem in winter, the days are too short for things to go off the rails that way.