6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work???

Mr.Cockburn
Mr.Cockburn Solar Expert Posts: 34 ✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Hi everyone,

I wanted to know if it was possible for me to use 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with only ONE Outback FM-80 MPPT charge controller in a parallel/series setup. I will be charging a 12 volt battery bank of about 450 A/H.

Do I need to buy another charge controller or will my setup work with only one?

Here are the specs of my solar panels:

PMP: 185 watts
VMP:23.6 volts
IMP: 7.84 amps
VOC: 29.5 volts
ISC: 8.58 amps

**Please note that I will be encountering freezing weather (up to -22 degrees F) so I think this could affect calculations and such.

Thank you very much for your input!
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Comments

  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??
    Mr.Cockburn wrote: »
    I wanted to know if it was possible for me to use 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with only ONE Outback FM-80 MPPT charge controller in a parallel/series setup. I will be charging a 12 volt battery bank of about 450 A/H.

    Do I need to buy another charge controller or will my setup work with only one?

    Here are the specs of my solar panels:

    PMP: 185 watts
    VMP:23.6 volts
    IMP: 7.84 amps
    VOC: 29.5 volts
    ISC: 8.58 amps

    **Please note that I will be encountering freezing weather (up to -22 degrees F) so I think this could affect calculations and such.

    Yes, it will work OK. You may find that if the batteries are low in voltage and the sun is bright and the air is cold, that you 'clip' a bit of your potential power.

    How are the panels configured? Three strings of two panels will be more efficient than two strings of three panels. Actually, for peak efficiency and longest life for your fm80, you could configure the 6 panels in parallel. Its easier for the controller to convert 23.6 volts to 12 volts than to convert 47.2 volts or 70.8 volts to 12 volts.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??

    i agree it should work. i ran the string sizing tool on midnite solar
    http://www.midnightsolar.com/
    and it showed charging amps to equal 77.1.
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  • Mr.Cockburn
    Mr.Cockburn Solar Expert Posts: 34 ✭
    #4
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??

    Hi, and thank you both for answering.

    Right now the system is not installed (but panels and charge controller are bought). The panel array will be located about 75 feet away from the cabin on a TPM, so I'm not sure if an all parallel setup would be logical pricewise... I do not mind the additionnal cost "per se" if it means having the best efficiency etc, but I would like to know your opinions on which way would be the best for me to wire the panels. If all parallel is the best way to go, this is the way I will do it, but from (very quick) calculations, I would need 3/0 wire to do so.

    Your help is VERY MUCH appreciated, thank you! It's quite hard to get good technical information in my area, so all your input is very precious to me. I want to make this installation the best I can on the first try, so I can avoid costly mistakes.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??

    The "short form" of panel configurations: http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?16241-Different-Panel-Configurations-on-an-MPPT-Controller

    Might be worth reading.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??
    Mr.Cockburn wrote: »
    The panel array will be located about 75 feet away from the cabin on a TPM, so I'm not sure if an all parallel setup would be logical pricewise...

    Yes, I agree that 6 in parallel is not practical with that distance.

    If you go three strings of 2 panels your voltage drop in a #4 AWG cable will be 1.89% and the power lost in the cable will be 21.03 watts. These numbers are for full STC power (1110 watts) and will be much lower at NOC.

    If you try to reduce your power loss in the cable by increasing voltage (two strings of three panels) you will indeed reduce your loss in the cable, but you just transfer that loss to the controller which will be less efficient and produce more heat. Better to produce the heat in the cable than the controller!

    When you use the lower voltage configuration (three strings of 2 panels) your power losses in the cable will be proportional to the square of the current, i.e. at half power your losses will be one quarter of the 21 watts.

    When you use the higher voltage configuration (two strings of 3 panels) the extra inefficiency of the controller will persist at all power levels.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??

    Another option would be to locate your batteries, CC, and inverter to the array and send AC to the cabin...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Mr.Cockburn
    Mr.Cockburn Solar Expert Posts: 34 ✭
    #8
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??

    Thanks guys,

    While reading Cariboocoot's "panel configuration form", it also looked to me like the three parallel strings of two panels was the best option to go, given the distance involved.

    Is there a link (or drawing) where I could clearly see the connections involved, where to put protections, amp ratings, etc...

    How would this setup perform if there was some shading (or snow) on some panels? (I will be putting the panels near-vertically in the winter and I chose my spot to minimize shading, but I'm sill curious!)

    Also, Thank you Photowhit, but I do not plan on using AC, I just use a small inverter for AC loads when needed (mainly TV and Sat box). All other loads are DC.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??
    Mr.Cockburn wrote: »
    Is there a link (or drawing) where I could clearly see the connections involved, where to put protections, amp ratings, etc...

    Buy a Midnite MNPV3 with three 12 amp circuit breakers. They have complete wiring instructions. You can special order them prewired with MC4 connectors built into the box. About as close to plug & play as possible.
    see: http://www.solar-electric.com/pvarco.html and http://www.solar-electric.com/mnepv.html

    vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Mr.Cockburn
    Mr.Cockburn Solar Expert Posts: 34 ✭
    #10
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Buy a Midnite MNPV3 with three 12 amp circuit breakers. They have complete wiring instructions. You can special order them prewired with MC4 connectors built into the box. About as close to plug & play as possible.
    see: http://www.solar-electric.com/pvarco.html and http://www.solar-electric.com/mnepv.html

    vtMaps

    Thanks vtMaps!

    I noticed that the MNPV3 does not come pre-wired (as an option) but they do offer the MNPV4 in pre-wired, so I think I'll go with that and have some room for future expansion if needed.

    Another "newbie" question (if I may!!).... I was wondering if I'm right to think that I will NOT be needing any multibranch connectors in my particular setup, since each string of 2 panels will be connected to a breaker? Correct?

    ***I WILL be getting help from a certified electrician (family member) to make the connections, etc, but I like to double-check and I also need to buy everything beforehand because solar equipment is not readily available where my cabin is. (Just wanted to specify this in case you're saying to yourself "OMG, this noob is going to burn his house down" or something!!!) I'm a machinist by trade, and for some reason electricity is just not my forte, but I'm trying (and willing) to learn!! Thanks a lot for your help.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??
    Mr.Cockburn wrote: »
    I noticed that the MNPV3 does not come pre-wired (as an option) but they do offer the MNPV4 in pre-wired, so I think I'll go with that and have some room for future expansion if needed.

    There's a lot more available than what you see in the catalog. The prewired MNPV4 that you see in the catalog has fuses, not circuit breakers. It was designed to appeal to the grid-tied market which needs higher voltages (fuses can handle 600 volts). You don't need 600 volt fuses... You want 150 volt breakers! Someday you will appreciate the ability to use those breakers to switch off one string at a time for diagnosis or servicing.

    Midnite will custom wire a box for you. Figure out what size box you want (do you want more than 3 breakers for future expansion?) and ask NAWS or Midnite to custom build it. For example: Midnite will make a prewired MNPV3 with breakers and built-in MC4 connectors.

    BTW, the fuses take up more space than the breakers, so the prewired MNPV4 that you see in the catalog can hold 6 breakers rather than 4 fuses.

    --vtMaps

    edit: the 6th post in this thread is by 'halfcrazy' who works for Midnite.

    Hey Midnite, I know you're reading this. This issue has come up several times on this NAWS forum and also on your own Midnite forum. Isn't it time to put prewired combiners with breakers into your catalog?
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Mr.Cockburn
    Mr.Cockburn Solar Expert Posts: 34 ✭
    #12
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??
    Mr.Cockburn wrote: »

    Another "newbie" question (if I may!!).... I was wondering if I'm right to think that I will NOT be needing any multibranch connectors in my particular setup, since each string of 2 panels will be connected to a breaker? Correct?

    Am I right to think that I won't be needing multibranch connectors?

    As for the combiner, I will be inquiring about having a MNPV3 custom-built to my needs, with (3) 150VDC 12 amp circuit breakers and MC4 connectors pre-wired.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #13
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??

    If you have three or more parallel strings--Yes everything will be done in your combiner box--No multibranch connectors will be needed.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Mr.Cockburn
    Mr.Cockburn Solar Expert Posts: 34 ✭
    #14
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??
    BB. wrote: »
    If you have three or more parallel strings--Yes everything will be done in your combiner box--No multibranch connectors will be needed.

    -Bill

    Great! I'm so happy all the pieces are finally coming together. I can't wait to make the final install and to be able to scream "it's aliiiiive!!!".

    Everyones info has been very appreciated. I might be making another post on AGM vs. Lead-acid batteries as I will be upgrading to a larger bank, and I would like to have some "real user" opinions of AGM's but I will read up a bit on the forum before doing so to make sure I'm not repeating allready answered questions. If I do post, I will look forward to reading your experiences with AGM's that's for sure! GREAT bunch of people on this forum. Thanks.
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??
    Mr.Cockburn wrote: »
    Everyones info has been very appreciated. I might be making another post on AGM vs. Lead-acid batteries

    AGM, GEL and FLA are all lead-acid battery types, with some similarities and some differences in capabilities and usefulness.

    What you call Lead-acid are more properly called Flooded (with electrolyte) Lead-Acid or FLA.
    Both AGM and GEL are called sealed or ValveRegulated because they do not freely release any hydrogen or oxygen generated by electrolysis under normal operation. GEL generally do not have suitable internal resistance or ability to accept a high charging current to make them useful for solar PV.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: 6 Kyocera KD185GX-LPU panels with 1 Outback FM-80 charge controller:Will this work??
    vtmaps wrote: »
    There's a lot more available than what you see in the catalog. The prewired MNPV4 that you see in the catalog has fuses, not circuit breakers. It was designed to appeal to the grid-tied market which needs higher voltages (fuses can handle 600 volts). You don't need 600 volt fuses... You want 150 volt breakers! Someday you will appreciate the ability to use those breakers to switch off one string at a time for diagnosis or servicing.

    Midnite will custom wire a box for you. Figure out what size box you want (do you want more than 3 breakers for future expansion?) and ask NAWS or Midnite to custom build it. For example: Midnite will make a prewired MNPV3 with breakers and built-in MC4 connectors.

    BTW, the fuses take up more space than the breakers, so the prewired MNPV4 that you see in the catalog can hold 6 breakers rather than 4 fuses.

    --vtMaps

    edit: the 6th post in this thread is by 'halfcrazy' who works for Midnite.

    Hey Midnite, I know you're reading this. This issue has come up several times on this NAWS forum and also on your own Midnite forum. Isn't it time to put prewired combiners with breakers into your catalog?

    I will pass this on to our crew. We can easily do breakers instead of fuses and will see about adding them to the list.

    Ryan
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