Outback GS8048 Radian

Hi folks,

I talked to a lady named Francine at Outback Power Systems today about a new GS8048 Radian inverter, and she got me in contact with a local dealer who is going to give us a quote on trading our current system for a new GS8048 with a Atkinson GSCM generator controller for our three-wire start generator. The Radian has generator load support in it like our SW+ units have and would eliminate the need for our balancing transformer.

I was sort of wondering if anybody has any experience with a Radian and can tell me what's good or bad about it.

Thanks.
--
Chris
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Comments

  • unicorniounicornio Solar Expert Posts: 217 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    I was sort of wondering if anybody has any experience with a Radian and can tell me what's good or bad about it.

    the new radian system is a new forward step of outback power systems, retaining all the capabilities and advantages of the previous inverters in a complete and well-integrated solution: scalable, redundant, fault-tolerant and field serviceable ...

    if you need these 8kvas, is an excellent choice ... I think the radian remains outback proprietary technology, that is, they can be absolute reliability ...

    I have installed only one unit in Spain, within four months of waiting for the list to 50hz/220vac CE model, and I have not had any problems ... everything perfect, as always ...;-)
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    My wife and I watched some of the Outback Training Videos last night, that Francine sent me the link to. My wife commented that she likes the looks of the Mate3 and that it appears to be much easier to understand than what we have now. She went to start the generator manually once on our present system, and once it was running she pushed the button to go back to the INV menu. She pressed the "-" key instead of the down arrow key and accidentally shut off the inverter (and all the power) and the generator.

    The overload capability of the Radian is very similar to the stacked SW+ inverters we have now. However, our system is 24 volt so our inverters draw slightly over 700 amps at full surge load. All of our incoming power is MPPT, and operated at much higher voltage than a 48 volt system runs at. So basically all I have to do to install a Radian is rewire the batteries 48 volt and screw the new inverter to the wall and hook it up. The Radian only draws 430 amps @ 17 kW surge.

    We are very interested in one - we'll see how the quote on a trade comes out.
    --
    Chris
  • unicorniounicornio Solar Expert Posts: 217 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    yeah! ... mate3 is almost the paradigm of a centralized controller... is intuitive and also ... is for everyone ... for those who want to see what is right, and for those who want to see everything all ...all...all...

    see what you can have with a mate3:
    monitor solar outback on-line
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    That looks very cool. I saw that the Mate3 does data logging to a SD card. Is that web-based information something that it does too, or is that an add-on of some sort?
    --
    Chris
  • unicorniounicornio Solar Expert Posts: 217 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    That looks very cool. I saw that the Mate3 does data logging to a SD card. Is that web-based information something that it does too, or is that an add-on of some sort?
    --
    Chris

    the mate3 has the ability to record files .log in the sd card, and also a function which sends a "datastream" to a web server, where data are introduced in a mysql database ...
    the app "on-line monitor" is a simple web query of this this database ... this is a free application that you can download from this link, (where are the instructions too):
    mate3 on line monitor explanation & source-code
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    Hi Chris,

    I have no personal experience with OB Inverters. OB has made very good products in the past, and so on.

    BUT, the Radian does NOT have a Power-Factor-Corrected Charger. Have read that the main guts of the Radian are from the 3648 inverter -- 2X the number of Power boards or whatever they are called. So, IMHO, this is probably good and bad. It is reliable due to the long history of the predecessor, but, to me a PFC Charger is important. YMMV, FWIW, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • unicorniounicornio Solar Expert Posts: 217 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian
    Vic wrote: »
    I have no personal experience with OB Inverters. OB has made very good products in the past, and so on.
    BUT, the Radian does NOT have a Power-Factor-Corrected Charger. Have read that the main guts of the Radian are from the 3648 inverter -- 2X the number of Power boards or whatever they are called. So, IMHO, this is probably good and bad. It is reliable due to the long history of the predecessor, but, to me a PFC Charger is important. YMMV, FWIW, Vic

    I've ever heard the issue of power factor correction, which would be closely related to the capacity of the charger work seamlessly with any AC source, and do not quite understand what is the lack, that one of the things that if I proven is that the charger works perfectly with all ac sources to which I have connected (for example in a boat, taking power of the jacks in pontoons worldwide ...)

    on the other hand, if the architecture of the radian is based on foundations of fx and vfx, that alone can be a great advantage, given its proven reliability, durability and performance ... ;-)
  • RCinFLARCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian
    Vic wrote: »
    BUT, the Radian does NOT have a Power-Factor-Corrected Charger.

    Since it is a bi-directional syncronous inverter, I would be surprised if the charging PF is much less then 1.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    I think so too. Being it's a synchronous inverter, it has to draw a sinusoidal current from the AC input that's in phase with the input voltage. According the PDF propaganda that Outback Power sent me, the PF is .96. And I find that reasonable. In fact, that's right in the same rough range as the chargers in our SW+ inverters. If the inverter is delivering 3,000 real watts to the batteries during charging, the generator is at roughly 3.1 kVA output.

    One thing I don't like about Outback is that they don't build their own generator controller. This means that for setting things like pre-crank, crank and post-crank seconds, you can't use the Mate3 to simply set that. Instead they use the third party controllers, or assume that everybody uses two-wire start generators.

    The other inverter we're going to take a hard look at is a Schneider Electric Conext (formerly Xantrex) XW6048. The 6048 is actually big enough to run our loads with generator load support. And with a Xanbus connected generator controller all the settings for the generator are available on the control panel for the inverter. The XW6048 also boasts better overload capability, and with its ability to deliver 7.2 kVA for 30 minutes, that's plenty of time to run most heavy intermittent loads and bring the generator online to help out if the load persists for more than a reasonable time that the battery bank can handle.

    The other thing that's a little disappointing looking at the specs for the GS8048 Radian is the idle and low-load efficiency is quite poor compared to the XW. While that may not be a big issue for grid tie folks, for off-grid it is. At night when the loads are really low an inverter that has a parasitic power consumption of 17 watts (XW) instead of 30 watts (Radian) will save roughly 40 kWh of power in a year's time.
    --
    Chris
  • mtdocmtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    Have you considered getting a twin stack of Outback VFX 3648's? Midnite makes a nice ePanel setup for this that could incorporate your Classic CC.

    You'd get 7.2 kVA rated output with 30 mins at 8 kVA. Idle power about 12watts.

    The nice thing about a twin stack is you'd get redundancy. If one inverter goes down you still have power. And of course these Outbacks have an unparalleled reliability history.

    The Radians seem more ideally suited to Grid Tie - Battery Back up situations.

    XWs have a nice feature set - just hope you don't need any tech support.....

    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    I think so too. Being it's a synchronous inverter, it has to draw a sinusoidal current from the AC input that's in phase with the input voltage. According the PDF propaganda that Outback Power sent me, the PF is .96. And I find that reasonable. In fact, that's right in the same rough range as the chargers in our SW+ inverters. If the inverter is delivering 3,000 real watts to the batteries during charging, the generator is at roughly 3.1 kVA output.

    This is in line with my measurements and those of others. See THIS thread on the Outback forum for details of Crewzer's measurement of the FX inverter power factor. I think in the case of the Outback FX inverters the lack of power factor correction - while a theoretical concern - is a non-issue in practice.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    mtdoc - I think the biggest issue for us would be that we pretty much depend on generator load support to run our heavy intermittent loads. The VFX/FX-series inverters only have generator pass-thru.

    There is basically only a few inverters that have generator load support; the old Trace/Xantrex SW's (which we have dual Plus 4024's now), the Conext/Xantrex XW-series, the new Outback GS8048 Radian, and Magnum Energy is coming out with one called the MSH4024RE (no release date yet).

    So if we want to up our bank voltage to 48 volts we basically only have two options - either the XW6048 or a GS8048 Radian.

    The support issue with the Conext XW worries me too. No dealers handle them (Xantrex) around here anymore. I don't know how they handle field support or repairs for warranty or out-of-warranty issues. The XW is designed to be field serviceable without having to remove it from the wall. But getting parts for it, in the event it would need something, could be another issue.
    --
    Chris
  • mtdocmtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    Oh right, the Gen load support issue.

    Well the Outback G inverters do this I believe, so you could do a twin stack of GVFX 3648s. But the G inverters are picky about gen input - requiring an inverter generator/grid quality sine wave.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    OK on the PF ...

    Just one year ago, I did ask about the Radian's PF on the OB Forum. I did get two answers; first was that it was 0.96 typ, and 0.85 max. Both when Selling. Asked about charging PF, and eventually got that it is from 0.96 to 0.50, depending on several factors.

    Thread here:
    http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=5672

    The reply from Steve Higgins is about eight replies down the page. So that was what made me believe that the Radian did not use PFC on the Radian Charger. I have read in the past that the OB 48 volt Inverters were NOT PFCed. I do not know enough to know. Just know what I was told, which is subject to intreptation.

    As of one year ago, the Radian was not FCC Class B, but it was mentioned that "steps were being taken in that direction". I am too lazy to see what the Emission Cert status if at this point.

    I have believed that the SW+ Xantrex inverters were about 0.95 PF, but this may not be worst-case.

    I don't know but I've been told ... Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • mtdocmtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    That's interesting Vic.

    I think you're right that they are not PF corrected - at least that is what I've read several places. But - in practice does it matter if the measured Power factor is greater than 90%?

    Based on Crewzer's tests the exact PF number appears to depend on how many charging amps you are drawing. My own measurements when using 2 paralleled Honda eu2000i's and letting my GVFX 3648 charge at it's max amps, showed a PF in the mid to upper 90s. Like you I had been concerned about the Outbacks lack of a PFC charger, but at least in my case it seems to be a non issue. So for the real life PF in these inverters- I suspect - as Steve Higgins says - "it depends" on several factors. Proper sizing of the generator, charger settings and when you choose to use your generator to charge will likely all determine the real life PF. I would guess that trying to do an absorb with the gen would mean a less optimal PF - but then one should probably not be doing that anyways...
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    Vic - interesting thread. Mary Raub is the lady that does all these Outback Training Videos demonstrating the Mate3, that I've been watching to learn more about this system before the dealer comes here on Monday:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/OutBackPowerTech/videos?sort=dd&flow=grid&view=0&page=1

    I sort of understand Steve Higgin's reply. In support mode he said it would be .96 and that makes sense - that's about what the SW+ is in support mode (generator load support where the inverter supports the AC input). In this mode if the load exceeds what the generator is producing the charger works in reverse and supplies synchronous power with the generator to the loads from the batteries. When the loads are less than the generator is producing the charger switches directions and charges the bank with the excess. That ~.95 or .96 PF is what I've seen with the SW+.

    The thing is - inverters with generator load support are never in "pure" battery charging mode. You have SW+ inverters and a generator I think - try this: start your generator and let the inverters sync up with it. Make sure the bank is down pretty good so the inverter starts bulking the bank at pretty much full gen output capacity - say with a 6 kW generator.

    Now turn on an extremely heavy load that requires all the surge power the generator can put out, plus full surge from the inverters. This may be upwards of 20-25 kW (like a big Lincoln welder striking an arc).

    With stacked Outback VFX's here's what happens - the gen goes into immediate overload and the inverter spits it off. The internal transfer relays click and the inverters try to meet the load. But they can't meet it so they go back to the generator because of load amps. The generator still hasn't recovered and now it gets hit again. The breaker on the gen trips and the inverters shut down due to overload and all your power goes out. This all happens in less than one second. Seen it with Outback inverters several times.

    With the stacked SW+ inverters here's what happens. The gen goes into overload but the inverter sees the max gen amps have been reached. Those chargers in there instantaneously reverse direction and meet the surge load with the batteries and the lights don't even flicker in the house. There's no relays or anything in there that clicks or takes 16 ms to switch. It's instantaneous. They can go from full charge amps to using both the generator and batteries to meet a heavy surge so fast that your HDTV won't even get a line of fuzz on it.

    I can't really see how the Radian would be any different with bi-directional synchronous chargers.

    If you have a generator with "dirty" output and running well out of spec, the PF is going to be quite a bit lower for obvious reasons. But the inverter will still accept it within about +/- 12 volts and +/- 6 Hz. But the charger is not going to operate efficiently with that sort of input.
    --
    Chris
  • stephendvstephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    So if we want to up our bank voltage to 48 volts we basically only have two options - either the XW6048 or a GS8048 Radian.

    The 4, 5 and 6kW US versions of the Sunny Island's also have gen support, but only 120V single phase output. Need transformer or 2 in parallel for 120/240 split phase.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    I didn't know about those. But I looked them up and they look quite nice.

    I guess one of my thoughts was that if we're upgrading, that it would be nice to have what we need in one box and get away from the stacking type setups. I guess one way to look at it is that stacked inverters provide redundancy in the event one would fail. But we have the generator to provide that too, and with a company like Outback I've heard (and pretty much experienced) that their customer support is excellent - and if you have a problem with one I've heard of some people that have had a board or replacement part overnight aired to them to get it going again.

    That's one thing that I'm a little uncertain about with a Conext/Xantrex. I have talked to Schneider Electric's Renewable Energy support people about the XW and let's just say I wasn't nearly as impressed as I was with Outback Power.
    --
    Chris
  • Ralph DayRalph Day Solar Expert Posts: 927 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    "will save roughly 40 kWh of power in a year's time."

    Chris, isnt' 40kwhrs about 30 minutes of your tubines' output on a windy day?:confused:;) Hardly worth calculating for.

    Ralph
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    On a good day we can get 60+ kWh from the wind turbines, proving we have enough water heating load, combined with other loads, to use it. On an average day we get 4-5 kWh apiece from the turbines and another 12-14 kWh from solar. However, for the entire month of October (so far) 63% of our power has come from wind. That will go to better than 80% coming from wind in the winter months. Solar does not work here in the winter very well.

    We got 2.9 kWh from 3.5 kW of installed solar capacity today, and 21 kWh (so far) from wind. The wind turbines are running at about 1.5-1.8 kW combined output as I type this. And the wind has picked up this afternoon. So I expect they'll produce ~30 kwh for the day by midnite when the Classics roll the logs over.

    Regardless of how much energy you produce or don't produce, 40 kWh is 40 kWh no matter where it's generated, used or wasted when you're off-grid.
    --
    Chris
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,157 admin
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    Chris, it sounds like you have the wind systems dialed in very nicely... Did you ever do a post/thread describing your wind turbine setup (I don't remember one)?

    Are you doing your own maintenance (if any is required)?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    Many of my builds are on some other forums for homebuilders. I build those turbines for off-grid folks, and I've got several of them in Canada. We have three wind turbines for our home. They're on 80 and 90 foot self-supporting towers - this is the latest one I put up in July on one of my own 80 foot towers:

    Attachment not found.

    Attachment not found.

    They are 3.5 meter (11.5 foot diameter) high voltage machines (cut in at 50 volts, rated power at 142 volts), have a geared axial generator, and use the Classic 150 controller. They produce 460 watts @ 15 mph, 1 kW @ 20 mph and 1.6 kW @ 25 mph. Depending on how you set the voltage clipper they are capable of well over the Classic's maximum output rating on 12 and 24 volt systems in 30+ mph wind. They are not power limited by the furling tail - that doesn't do anything until the wind is blowing about 35-40 mph. Their power is limited by the voltage clipper.

    Yes, of course, I do all the maintenance. They only require annual service which consists of inspecting the blades and touching up any worn paint and cleaning leading edges, inspecting the drop cable for wear (they do not use slip rings), changing oil in the gearbox, and greasing the yaw/thrust and tail bearings.

    I only build them for qualified off-grid installations, and only for installation on a proper tower. I will not build one for somebody who wants to use it for grid-tie, or put it on a guyed pipe tower because pipe towers move too much and won't hold one in high winds. The machine weighs in excess of 300 lbs and develops close to 1,000 lbs of side thrust on the tower mast in 90 mph wind (90 mph survival required by the new tower standard). The towers for them are either built here (my own design), or I use Rohn SSV towers, depending on the zoning requirements and what engineering stamp is required on it.

    My turbines are well outside the budget range of all but the most serious off-grid installations. But they are also not a toy like a Bergey XL.1 Noisemaker.
    --
    Chris
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,157 admin
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    Some impressive units there... (never mind on the tower question--See you already have addressed it in your post).

    How do you access/service them?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    Chris,

    OB has had excellent Customer Support, and Warranty Service in the past. It has been in their genes. I have heard nothing to change my opinion on that.

    But, only from reading the OB Forum Radian Topic, one might want to wait for the Radian to get some issues resolved. It is still fairly new. Abd these modern boxes are complex. However if there is any way for you to AVOID Schneider Electric, you should be light years ahead by doing just that. They seem to ignore/hate their customers.

    I sure DO like the Xantrex SW+ inverters .. knock knock. Know that you want to go 48 V, but seems like your system is working, altho you do want the support function.

    Steve Higgins appears to have moved from OB to Surrette, altho, guess that he might wear both of those hats as a freelancer or something ...

    Personally, I'd just never run a welder on any my inverters. Use an old gasoline genset for that. And if I sere a real weldor, would get an engine-driven unit. JMHO, Objects Appear .... OH, mean, YMMV. Good Luck, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian
    BB. wrote: »
    Some impressive units there... (never mind on the tower question--See you already have addressed it in your post).
    How do you access/service them?

    Bill - my towers are tilting towers, so they tilt down with a gin and a 5,000 lb winch - the winch either anchored to a dead man that is installed when the tower is put in, or my service truck. Rohn will not provide an engineering stamp on their SSV towers when modified for tilting with a gin. So you have two options with a Rohn that requires an engineering stamp for your zoning jurisdiction - either climb it or get a crane to lay it down.

    On the older ones I designed the oil drain and fill on the gearbox so they could be serviced with the tower standing (Rohn SSV). But on the newer ones (2011 and newer) I've gone to designing the oil drain and fill for having the tower laid down. The tilting tower is by far the best (and safest and easiest) for annual service.

    I highly frown on guyed pipe towers because they are the most unstable and dangerous outfits that anybody could put up. I think they got popular with homebuilders and off-gridders because of cost and Hugh Piggot's designs. And they don't require major excavation or a redi-mix truck to pour 14 yards of concrete for the foundation - both of which are sometimes not possible in remote off-grid locations. But even a guyed lattice tower is a MUCH better option than using Schedule pipe for a tilting tower.
    --
    Chris
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian
    Vic wrote: »
    However if there is any way for you to AVOID Schneider Electric, you should be light years ahead by doing just that. They seem to ignore/hate their customers.

    I called and talked to Schneider Electric about a new XW6048. The lady I talked to was knowledgeable enough, answered all my questions, recommended a dealer that's only 50 miles from us (that I didn't know handles and services them) - but was not near as friendly and thorough as the lady I talked to at Outback Power.

    The lady at Outback Power asked us where we live - and when I told her she said well they sell batteries too and she's familiar with where we live and knows it gets REALLY cold here in the winter so we might need more batteries too. The conversation was fun, she obviously knew what she was talking about, gave me her direct number and extension in case I have any more questions, put me on conference call while she contacted the dealer and introduced me to the authorized dealer over the phone - how do you put it? Just top notch treatment of a potential customer.

    The Schneider lady acted like she could care less if I ever called there again.
    Steve Higgins appears to have moved from OB to Surrette, altho, guess that he might wear both of those hats as a freelancer or something ...

    It appears Mary Raub, who used to work for Tech Support at Outback, has also left and now works as a solar designer for a company that installs solar power systems on homes and charges the homeowner a flat fee for the power produced by the solar power system.
    --
    Chris
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    Maybe I should ask this - who services the XW inverters now? I know the XW is about as bullet proof as the SW's were. I've never heard of one actually breaking. But back when SW's were sold there was a dealer network that handled them and if there was a problem they'd fix it, usually on-site. They carried FET boards, relays and common parts right on the shelf. That seems to be gone.

    So who actually comes to your place to fix a XW inverter if it does break? I know it's not the dealer that they recommended to me because I talked to them and they can get one (order it) - and install it - but they told me they do not field service them because they don't know anything about them.

    Has the XW turned into one of those inverters that you have to box up and send in to get it fixed?
    --
    Chris
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Maybe I should ask this - who services the XW inverters now? I know the XW is about as bullet proof as the SW's were. I've never heard of one actually breaking. But back when SW's were sold there was a dealer network that handled them and if there was a problem they'd fix it, usually on-site. They carried FET boards, relays and common parts right on the shelf. That seems to be gone.

    So who actually comes to your place to fix a XW inverter if it does break? I know it's not the dealer that they recommended to me because I talked to them and they can get one (order it) - and install it - but they told me they do not field service them because they don't know anything about them.

    Has the XW turned into one of those inverters that you have to box up and send in to get it fixed?
    --
    Chris

    i would think in a case like that while under warranty and approval from schneider they would authorize the dealer to take a new one out and replace the defective one and the dealer would just send the defective one back to the company. i am guessing on this though.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian

    Well, it's kind of a curious thing because if you watch this video, one of the things they say is that the XW was designed to be field serviceable:
    http://youtu.be/ol1lpFvHeMA

    --
    Chris
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian
    Vic wrote: »
    Steve Higgins appears to have moved from OB to Surrette
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    It appears Mary Raub, who used to work for Tech Support at Outback, has also left

    Steve and Mary have left Outback?? I hope this isn't the result of the new Alpha management cutting into tech support.
    Vic wrote: »
    OB has had excellent Customer Support, and Warranty Service in the past. It has been in their genes.
    Let's hope so.
    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Outback GS8048 Radian
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Steve and Mary have left Outback?? I hope this isn't the result of the new Alpha management cutting into tech support.

    There's been some changes at Outback. They quit building their PSX-240 transformer, which was a better unit than the Trace T240 because it had a fan in it with a thermostat on it, giving it a much higher output rating. But being it was sort of an "add-on" and didn't really integrate with their power panel they quit offering it. The Radian was really an answer to the XW when Robin Gudgel got involved in management at Outback again. Robin notes in this article that the features that were missing in the FX-series inverters (like generator load support and Silent Mode), as compared to the SW, ended up with the result that the XW was kicking Outback's butt
    http://www.midnitesolar.com/pages/robinsSystem/robinSystem.php

    The concept of the Radian was born, and then it took several years to bring it to market - after the company was sold to Alpha Group. And in Robin's opinion they didn't quite get the AC distribution panel right for it. So Midnite Solar resurrected the original breaker box design they had come up with for it when Robin was still at Outback.

    When you get down to where the rubber meets the road, there has been basically one team of engineers that has designed and built all the top name equipment in the business today, and that team now resides at Midnite Solar. And if Midnite Solar ever decides to build their own inverters, judging by what they did with the Classic series of controllers, I suspect they will become the nemesis for Schneider Electric and Outback Power.
    --
    Chris
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