Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

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  • Utana
    Utana Solar Expert Posts: 32 ✭
    #452
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    Eric L wrote: »
    I've been following this thread with interest, but am oddly in a near-opposite position where it doesn't make sense for me to invest in a mini-split. Having built a large 'hobby' pv system that has turned out to be sufficient to run two inexpensive window units that keep our house cool during the day (thus keeping the central heat pump off), our summer electric bills are now running under $40, and that's for an all-electric house. So I actually have too much daytime pv power to justify an expensive mini-split right now, awesome though they sound.
    After living for the last 4 years with window a/c units, I have to say I LOVE the mini-split. It keeps the area cool our view out our windows isn't blocked by those ugly things. We still have window units in our bedroom and I can't wait to replace those with a 2nd mini-split. The mini-splits are so quiet they spoil you. I can hardly stand being in the room with my window units running now. Ultimately we will have 4 of these mini-splits installed. We need one 12000 btu for the bedroom/bath area upstairs, one dual unit for two down-stairs bedrooms, and one for our great room and formal dining room in the front of our downstairs. We'll be putting them in as we can afford them. Master bedroom upstairs is definitely priority at this time.

    Kelly
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    #453
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Kelly,
    Do you really need all that many air handler units? My 12000btu unit is situated in the exact middle of 1100sq ft bungalow with a 12foot high vaulted ceiling. The great room has the majority of the cool air (the air handler is in it's centre point), but the bedrooms and bathroom off of it and the halway are quite comforatble...the air flows in and out of them. The master bedroom is a northwest heat sucking spot, but I've found I don't need to have a pedestal fan moving air into it, it's comfortable for sleeping.

    I guess it depends on your floor space, floor plan, insulation of the building etc.

    Ralph
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  • Utana
    Utana Solar Expert Posts: 32 ✭
    #454
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    I'm reasonably sure I'm going to have to divide it up with multiple units this way. We have an old house. All the spaces are divided up with small doorways. We also have old windows. I've installed some thermal blinds which does help a lot, but heat still gets in through the windows a lot. I'm not willing to part with my old wobbly glass windows, so I'll have to put up with the heat from them in the summer and cold air in the winter.

    I've found a 12000 btu dual unit that provides 6000 btus of air to two separate indoor units. I'm probably going to get that for the bedrooms. Our upstairs is kind of one long area, so I think one 12000 or maybe even a 9000 btu unit will work well for that. Then a 9000 or 12000 btu unit for the front of the house.

    I probably could have opted to put in a unit with more btus, but the more the btus the lower the SEER, so I opted for SEER instead. Maybe I should try to post a photo of our current set-up.

    Kelly
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #455
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    I've got thermal curtains in the den, but the sun coming in the two 4'x4' west side windows was really over-heating our den..
    Solar Screens was the cure. They cut the incoming heat by 85% at least. I'm amazed at how well Suntex screens work.
    Just hold your hand out in direct sunlight, then place a vertical Suntex screen between your hand and the sun.
    You can instantly feel the heat on your skin, go from sunburn hot, to cool shade.
    One of the best investments I've made for cooling. Plus they keep the sun from bleaching out your carpet and furniture etc.

    http://ecorenovator.org/forum/renovations-new-construction/1597-suntex-solar-screen-project.html
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  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    #456
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    ... Couple days ago, as a test, after running it all day as an AC during a very hot spell, and noticing a lot of the time it was throttled back, everything came to a head. Unhooked it from the mains and instead, through a Kill-A-Watt to the xantrex 1800/12, not knowing what to expect. Once again, I am amazed at that this off grid system will power! Turned it on, cranked down the thermostat to make it work hard, then sat back and watched the Kill-A-Watt. Was shocked at how gentle was it's demand for power. Started out @ 50 watts, then very gradually it crept up to 150, then 200 etc, until after about 5 minutes it was reaching for 700 watts. Checked the power factor though and found it up around 900 VA. Everything operates on DC, so the PF issue must be with it's power supply. Tried adding a 25 MFD cap across it just to see what would happen, but no change. So I eased up on the thermostat and the wattage slowly spooled down to around 300, where it more or less held for the rest of the day, sometimes dropping back to 200, or even 150, and still it kept the place comfortable with +90 F outside. Can you say Impressed? I can! So why the need for a 20 amp breaker? Perhaps it's different in heat mode, although I can't guess why it should be.
    So now it's wired to a male plug, and right beside it are two receptacles, one for grid, the other for the Xantrex 1800/12. Today, as soon as the sun was hitting the panels, the Mini-split was turned on to keep the place cool, another hot day. And keep the place comfortable using just the left over power from the panels, that would otherwise not be used! Using between 250 and 400 watts, then by the end of the day, before the sun was gone, it had throttled back to roughly 150 watts and was still providing cold air. So it looks like, as long as the sun is shining, I have free AC and still at the end of the day the batteries are fully charged!
    Interesting how when I first got involved with the off grid system, my expectations were so low, and over the years, I've slowly added more and more loads, with each new load bringing pleasant amazement!

    Use caution with the Kill-a-watt. I used mine to measure my smaller Sanyo mini-split power consumption and over a couple of weeks it got hot enough to singe and slightly melt the receptacle on the meter. I've since hard-wired the Sanyo.

    Phil
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #457
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    PhilS wrote: »
    Use caution with the Kill-a-watt. I used mine to measure my smaller Sanyo mini-split power consumption and over a couple of weeks it got hot enough to singe and slightly melt the receptacle on the meter. I've since hard-wired the Sanyo.

    Phil

    Very interesting! Sounds like the spring loaded receptacle contact clips weren't making really good contact. Had the same thing happen with a small washing machine plugged into a GFI outlet at the camp. Melted and blackened it around one slots for of the male plug blades, and arc damaged the mail plug as well :(
    Note to self: Self, check the male plug blades and make sure they're shiny clean!.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #458
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    My Kill-o-Watt got overheated while loaned out to a buddy. It stinks up the room when I use it now.. :(
    But, I just found a new meter that does all the same stuff and more. It might even be useful at 240vac.

    http://ecorenovator.org/forum/appliances-gadgets/2280-ensupra-power-usage-monitor-20-a.html

    meter.jpg
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #459
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    XRinger wrote: »
    My Kill-o-Watt got overheated while loaned out to a buddy. It stinks up the room when I use it now.. :(

    Would definitely be worth taking it apart and checking the receptacle contacts for arc damage and burning. Sounds like something is overheating in there and there's really not much else that can overheat while the device still works. The load current just passes through a shunt. If there's a problem with the electronics, there's a fuse resistor that will blow. BTW, the first ones out would burn the fuse resistor if used on MSW inverters. They "cured" that with a larger wattage fuse resistor. It's my guess that's what you will find. I've had mine apart and its quite straight forward.
    Sounds like you're new one has a far higher quality switching power supply for it's electronics. The Kill-A-Watt uses a simple capacitor, rectifier and Zeener regulator. Cheap.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #460
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    It was a while back when I looked it over. I seem to recall a large resistor that was pretty discolored and the PCB pads holding the shunt looked a bit cooked.
    It still works, and it's okay for small loads (I hope).
    Anyways, I have two of the new meters now, and a Loaner Kill-A-Watt.. :)
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #461
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    XRinger wrote: »
    It was a while back when I looked it over. I seem to recall a large resistor that was pretty discolored and the PCB pads holding the shunt looked a bit cooked.
    It still works, and it's okay for small loads (I hope).
    Anyways, I have two of the new meters now, and a Loaner Kill-A-Watt.. :)

    The large discolored resistor is likely the "fuse resistor" that was changed to the larger physical size to get rid of the heat created from MSW inverters. If it's discolored, it had to be run on very poor quality MSW, or even square wave, and who knows, perhaps above the design voltage. If the shunt area also looks cooked, MAN, they must have been really loading the poor thing :cry:
    Always good to have a loaner, or not lend at all. But sometimes a refusal offends :D
    Sign over door:
    Please do not ask to borrow tools or meters, as we cannot lend them and a refusal often offends :D
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #462
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    Sign over door:
    Please do not ask to borrow tools or meters, as we cannot lend them and a refusal often offends     :D

    That seemed like a good sign to have above my bench at work..
    But, there is a problem. All the tools & test gear at work, was paid for by Taxpayers!
    So, since I'm a flex-time worker (only come in when needed), every time I go to work, a few more tools are missing..
    A few months ago, someone from another dept, took my O-Scope for his 'home' project!!?!
    (It's an out-of-date basic 200 mhz scope. I think it's the cheapest scope I've seen purchased by the goverment).

    How the heck am I going to get my job done, without the most basic tools??

    I may have to take my personal O-scope to work with me.
    I would just have to spray paint the case red, with the lettering, "DO NOT STEAL! Personal Property!"

    Or, I could just go to work once in a while and spent all my time obtaining new tools..?.

    Nope, I'm leaning toward the idea of 100% retirement. Seems like less stress..
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #463
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Wow XRinger, that workplace situation SUCKS! How DO you get you're work done without the scope? You're working blindfolded :(
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #464
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    I've been thinking about that scope.. Maybe instead of using that old Tektronix 475, I can get one of those new 300 mhz scopes..
    They only cost a bit more than the one I've been using for 14 years..
    Maybe the Agilent/HP DSO5032A ?? Hey, it's free.. (Those Taxpayers will pick up the $8,000 tab)..
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #465
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Haha would love to have one of those scopes:)
    Back on topic for a moment - - - - Something I hadn't thought about, but discovered after connecting my mini split through the Kill-A-Watt. When my Mini split is turned "off", it still consumes 5 or 6 watts. Not a huge deal if on grid, but off grid, every watt can count. So now I have an inline on/off switch for when the mini split is not needed.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #466
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    That's the controller board and it is a waste, unless you plan to use the system soon..

    When it's cold, my Sanyos want to heat the compressor's crankcase oil.. About 40 watts each!
    I put an X10 switch on the 5v PS of my 10A auto-breaker for my on-warranty Sanyo. I shut it down when weather is nice.
    My non-warranty Sanyo has the 10A auto-breaker built in. So, I have to manually pop the breaker downstairs.. :(
    The 18,000 BTUh version (of this model) doesn't have a crankcase heater at all.. The Cool-Only 24,000 BTU is also heater-free.

    Funny, it's been mild but muggy. Not nice weather, so we had the Sanyos either in dehumidify or cooling mode.
    Since last night at midnight, we've burned up (it's 19:30 now) 4.3 kwh. That's 70 cents, or 3.6 cents an hour. :p

    I'm not going to calculate what I'm paying to the city in property taxes per hour.. No way!!
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #467
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    It was starting out to be a nice day until you mentioned taxes Rich!

    A word of caution ! When I started using the mini split 3 years ago, it was a reaction to the Telegraph fire and a DC-10 dropping retardant over my house. We had large thermal drapes outside the windows to keep the house cool. One of the fire captains pulled them down and showed me how easy they burned. A perfect fire path to the eaves.

    The curtains on the inside did not work as well and hence the gamble that the Sanyo mini split would work off the grid.


    Here is a link to the decerning, interesting indoor units


    http://www.pexsupply.com/LG-LA096HNP-9800-BTU-Art-Cool-Ductless-Single-Zone-Mini-Split-Air-Conditioner-Heat-Pump
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #468
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    The original unit described in this thread has been discontinued. After following several links to replacements I ended up on the Panasonic site. The unit that is to be the direct replacement is no longer 115v. http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/E9NKUA?t=specs
    Does anyone in this thread know of a current production 115 unit that has the same basic components as the original? I don't want to go 208, if I dont have to.
    I just converted a little over 200sf of my garage into a room. I added 2' of insulation to the entire attic of this house, but being in Texas, the house, and this room, get a lot of sun. I am trying to get this room to be steady under 80*. 77* would be better. The unit will be grid fed for at least the rest of this year.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #469
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Well--That is terrible news. No more 120 VAC mini splits from Sanyo/Panasonic.

    Any other 120 VAC mini-splits out there?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #470
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Seven, there are a few 120vac units around. (The last time I looked). Most of them are in the 9,000 BTU range.
    Be sure to get a brand name model (if possible) that has some good reviews. Make certain it's the Inverter type.

    If you have windows where the sun comes into that 200sf room, get some Solar Screens (sold in Texas).
    They will block 85 to 90 percent of window heat gain.. http://ecorenovator.org/forum/renovations-new-construction/1597-suntex-solar-screen-project.html
    They work amazingly well..
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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #471
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    XRinger wrote: »
    Seven, there are a few 120vac units around. (The last time I looked). Most of them are in the 9,000 BTU range.
    Be sure to get a brand name model (if possible) that has some good reviews. Make certain it's the Inverter type.

    If you have windows where the sun comes into that 200sf room, get some Solar Screens (sold in Texas).
    They will block 85 to 90 percent of window heat gain.. http://ecorenovator.org/forum/renovations-new-construction/1597-suntex-solar-screen-project.html
    They work amazingly well..
    I'll keep looking then. No windows in the room. Thanks for the replies.
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  • TheBackRoads
    TheBackRoads Solar Expert Posts: 274 ✭✭
    #472
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    I've seen a couple inverter mini-split systems on Ebay... I want to say it was Fredrich, but that doesn't sound right. I'll dig around..
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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #473
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    I've seen a few on eBay and other sites, but the reviews are horrible. No support, no return, no spare parts, etc. if I have to run the 208v models to get the high seer rating, then that is just what I will have to do. I am just wanting the highest efficiency I can get for long term use.
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #474
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    TheBackRoads wrote: »
    I've seen a couple inverter mini-split systems on Ebay... I want to say it was Fredrich, but that doesn't sound right. I'll dig around..

    I have a friedrich inverter type supported by my AC guy from a local supplier. So far so good going on second season with no issues. Mine is a 30,000 BTU base unit with 3 9000 BTU wall units on a 30 amp 240 circuit. You can see the on off spikes on the TED while running one wall unit.

    They do make 120V models in the 9000 BTU range.
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  • TheBackRoads
    TheBackRoads Solar Expert Posts: 274 ✭✭
    #475
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Found it! Fedders. They seem to offer a 12K and a 9K via 115V, and also claim to use the Sanyo compressor.

    12,000

    9,000

    Solar_dave I watch your TED a few times a day and you have crazy spikes hahaha. My meter is boring...
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #476
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    That 12,000 has some impressive specs (& has the install kit)..

    If my Den Sanyo compressor fails (the outdoor unit that I repaired),
    I'll use the system for spare parts and install a Fedders system.
    I think the 9k Fedders would work fine. It's specs are even better than the 12k..
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #477
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    TheBackRoads wrote: »

    Solar_dave I watch your TED a few times a day and you have crazy spikes hahaha. My meter is boring...

    Craxy loads make crazy spikes, e pink line has the Friedrich on it, small spikes there. What I hate more than the spikes is the high sustained loads on the red line, dual 3 ton Trane ACs running flat out. BTW if I had it to do over I would have bought two 3 ton mini splits and ceiling mounts instead of the Tranes.
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  • castilloj
    castilloj Solar Expert Posts: 208 ✭
    #478
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Where can i purchase the sanyo/panasonic mini split?
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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #479
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    castilloj wrote: »
    Where can i purchase the sanyo/panasonic mini split?

    You may want to ask a few AC guys before your purchase. I talked to three of them and one guy in sales and they were all of the opinion that AC components should never start with the letter P.

    I ended up ordering a fredrich(sp) 12k btu unit with cool only. The cool only option was a result of the same talk with the same AC people due to complexity of repairs down the road. It is a little big for the space, but the low amp draw and the 20 seer rating while still being a 115v unit made it the best choice for my needs.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #480
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    castilloj wrote: »
    Where can i purchase the sanyo/panasonic mini split?

    You might have a problem finding a dealer in Haiti. But, if you can afford the shipping, maybe online.?.
    http://bostonheatingsupply.com/PanasonicAirConditioners.aspx
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  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #481
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Here is the companys web page : http://www.heatandcool.com
    There is no eb stuff on there web site , but Paypal still works.
    It's a little less due to no E-bay charges.

    VT

    Edit add: here is another one to try : http://kingersons.com/solar-ductless-split-inverter-ac-unit.html I stumbled on this one.
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