Would anybody mind to have a look at my diagram?

aleman83
aleman83 Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Good Morning everybody,

I have worked on a diagram this morning, and was wondering if you guys could have a look at it for me. I am a carpenter and not an electrician, so I hope it makes enough sense to you.

Attachment not found.

I know that the battery is big for right now, but I want to buy 3 more panels and another Midnite solar classic as soon as I get the money.

Have a great morning everybody,

Aleman
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Would anybody mind to have a look at my diagram?

    Where is that 12 volt fuse box coming from? --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • SCharles
    SCharles Solar Expert Posts: 123 ✭✭
    #3
    Re: Would anybody mind to have a look at my diagram?
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Where is that 12 volt fuse box coming from? --vtMaps


    That was the first question that jumped out at me.

    And you can do it, just not as you have drawn. We do it at our home. The way we do it is to run the output from the controller(s) to a distribution block. From the block, we run DC [12 v.] to a distribution set-up for all our DC circuits. From the block we also run the DC to the batteries. In short, everything from the PV arrays runs into a distribution block [a hefty one], then the electricity is "distributed" from the block to both the battery bank and the DC load center. Of course, we also have the cables to the inverter run from the block.

    Distribution blocks, by the way, are not expensive. A big one can be had for $50 or sometimes less if you shop around. You will need one that will accept heavy cables [such as for the battery].
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  • aleman83
    aleman83 Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
    #4
    Re: Would anybody mind to have a look at my diagram?
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Where is that 12 volt fuse box coming from? --vtMaps


    That's just a regular old car fuse box that I've modified for my needs ;)
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Would anybody mind to have a look at my diagram?
    aleman83 wrote: »
    That's just a regular old car fuse box that I've modified for my needs ;)

    What I was asking is how is the 12 volts getting into that fuse box? It looks like it is coming out of the controller, rather than from the battery.
    Also, if that is an automotive fuse box I would put a real DC fuse or breaker near the battery to protect the line on the way to the car fuse box.
    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • aleman83
    aleman83 Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
    #6
    Re: Would anybody mind to have a look at my diagram?

    Ahhhhhh. I am sorry! When I drew this I was thinking about my small 10A Charge controller that I am using right now. That one has a special 10A Load outlet for small loads. That's why I have drawn it like that. Of course it will have to go to the battery!

    My mistake in the drawing!
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Would anybody mind to have a look at my diagram?

    Can you explain a bit more about the battery bank. How many batteries in parallel to get that size ? Following GOOD rules about mili-ohm cable resistance?

    You are using the Classic, to down convert 120VDC, to 12V. That is a large conversion, and you pay for it with a bit of a reduction in efficiency. As long as you understand you are not in the 95% efficiency range anymore. You could be getting 79amp in the output circuit, are your wires & crimps rated for that?

    You indicate a "load" tap coming off the classic to power lights. Does the classic have a "load" tap. To me, lights are the last thing I want to have shut off - how do you find your way to the backup generator? How does the generator wire in ?

    Why 12V ? EZ lights from car/camper setups ? Many of those will fail at 14-16V charging voltages.

    Can your array Equalize the batteries properly after a day of charging, or will you have to run a genset?

    Much copper loss @ 12V, 24V would be much better efficiency wise. Have you calculated the amps draw, if the inverters are both loaded up ?

    here's an early draft of my layout: (done in visio)

    Attachment not found.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Would anybody mind to have a look at my diagram?

    Mike, in another thread he has been warned over and over about the 12 volt issue. I think he's getting a big battery for free and wants to use it. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • aleman83
    aleman83 Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
    #9
    Re: Would anybody mind to have a look at my diagram?
    Mike, in another thread he has been warned over and over about the 12 volt issue. I think he's getting a big battery for free and wants to use it. --vtMaps
    No, I don't get the battery for free. But as I sad before. I live in a third world country, where everything I can buy is 12 V. So a 24 V system just doesn't work for me. It's as simple as that.
    You are using the Classic, to down convert 120VDC, to 12V. That is a large conversion, and you pay for it with a bit of a reduction in efficiency. As long as you understand you are not in the 95% efficiency range anymore. You could be getting 79amp in the output circuit, are your wires & crimps rated for that?

    I know that I wont be in the 95% efficiency range anymore, but I have a long run from the panels to the controller, and it would mean tremendous money saving for me in the wires. The 79Amps should be fine with the 2 AWG copper over less than 4 feet, right?
    You indicate a "load" tap coming off the classic to power lights. Does the classic have a "load" tap. To me, lights are the last thing I want to have shut off - how do you find your way to the backup generator? How does the generator wire in ?

    Sorry about the "load" tap. That was my mistake in the drawing.
    Why 12V ? EZ lights from car/camper setups ? Many of those will fail at 14-16V charging voltages.

    I can buy nice incandescent 12V light bulbs here that only run 7Watts and work great for me.
    Can your array Equalize the batteries properly after a day of charging, or will you have to run a genset?

    I hope it will be fine. Somebody made this calculation for me:

    Charging current wise, for a 1,000 AH @ 12 volt battery bank, we would suggest 5% to 13% rate of charge with solar panels (if solar only). And, in fact, with forklift batteries, probably closer to 10% to 13% rate of charge. So:
    1,000 AH * 14.5 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.05 rate of charge = 942 Watt Array "minimum"
    1,000 AH * 14.5 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.10 rate of charge = 1,883 Watt Array "nominal"
    1,000 AH * 14.5 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+controller derating * 0.13 rate of charge = 2,448 Watt Array "cost effective maximum"

    I will be starting out with the 3x 315 Watts. And as soon as I have the money together get another 3x 315 Watts to meet the nominal size.

    And as I said. I know about the 24V,.... but all I can buy here is 12V, and I just don't have the supplies like people in the states.

    Aleman
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Would anybody mind to have a look at my diagram?

    What are your 2 inverters running ? If anything with a motor, you should run motors off a pure sine inverter.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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