Using a soldering gun/iron with a modified sine wave inverter

fixitdude
fixitdude Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Will I have any issues using a soldering gun/iron with a modified sine wave inverter?
Will the performance suffer?
Loss of heat out put?
Bad for the gun/iron?

Thank You
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Using a soldering gun/iron with a modified sine wave inverter
    fixitdude wrote: »
    Will I have any issues using a soldering gun/iron with a modified sine wave inverter?
    Will the performance suffer?
    Loss of heat out put?
    Bad for the gun/iron?

    Thank You
    A typical soldering gun vibrates and hums like crazy when on because of the high current through an inexpensive transformer designed for intermittent use only. With MSW, it will be louder and shakier because of the squared off waveform. A resistive heating appliance like a soldering iron should be OK, but since the soldering gun incorporates a transformer, it is a different story.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Using a soldering gun/iron with a modified sine wave inverter

    A $20 soldering IRON will be just fine.

    A $20 soldering GUN has a step-down transformer in it, and it will be UNHAPPY on mod-sine. It may function, or it may die, keep us posted

    > $30 soldering "stations" have a bunch of electronics in them and if you use that, keep us posted.


    ps - I don't think mod-square wave inverters are worth much.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Using a soldering gun/iron with a modified sine wave inverter

    I've used both, from time to time for probably 20 years on square wave (the gun really buzzes) and later on MSW when they became available. No problem with iron. My 40 year old Weller gun has a wee bit of a buzz on MSW, other than that, for normal intermittent use, I've had no problems. The gun is usually down a bit on heat output, but it's also down a bit on the SureSine 300 inverter, as it's output voltage is roughly 110 volts, compared to 125 - 128 on grid. So it takes an extra second or two to come up to temperature, not a big deal. I usually use the gun on the Xantres 1800 inverter, as it's output voltage is a bit higher than the SureSine, thus it heats quicker. There is one downside to the higher voltage though, the gun tips don't last as long.
    But I still use an MSW inverter for the gun when using it on jobs in remote areas, powered from the car battery.
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  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Using a soldering gun/iron with a modified sine wave inverter

    I have used the Weller soldering station for years on MSW inverter. Never a problem 600w inverter and the car battery. You get a bit of transformer buzz but not a lot.. It takes about 2 seconds more to get up to heat than on grid.
    Mabe in another 10 yrs it wil fail.. ??/ Who knows;)
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  • 2manytoyz
    2manytoyz Solar Expert Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Using a soldering gun/iron with a modified sine wave inverter

    An el-cheapo solder iron is simply a resistive load. No temperature control circuit, no hum, no issues. I have used this Ungarmatic iron, along with a solder pot (same time), as a test load on a MSW inverter that I repaired (bad fan):

    dsc_0074.jpg

    Zero issues with this iron. No hum... but it doesn't have an adjustable temperature. So go simple, and it'll work fine.
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  • fixitdude
    fixitdude Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
    #7
    Re: Using a soldering gun/iron with a modified sine wave inverter

    I have a new Weller D650 gun and a Weller 15 watt iron.
    After posting here I contacted Weller and Xantrex.
    Weller said it should not be a problem, Xantrex said it depends on the design of the tool.

    Thanks for your replies.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Using a soldering gun/iron with a modified sine wave inverter
    fixitdude wrote: »
    I have a new Weller D650 gun and a Weller 15 watt iron.
    After posting here I contacted Weller and Xantrex.
    Weller said it should not be a problem, Xantrex said it depends on the design of the tool.

    Thanks for your replies.
    Haha Xantrex covering their butts. :D
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  • Slappy
    Slappy Solar Expert Posts: 251 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Using a soldering gun/iron with a modified sine wave inverter

    No problems with a iron on a ms inverter
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  • AACS
    AACS Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
    #10
    I have a 12V to 110V, 500W modified sine wave inverter.

    I also have 110V:
         - 250W Weller Soldering Gun,
         - 80W Digital Display modern Chinese ceramic core Soldering Iron,
         - 30W old resistance type Soldering Iron.

    I first connected the 250W. It worked fine for a while.

    An hour later, I connected the 80W for a lighter job. The LED showed it is ON, but it was hot heating up.

    I disconnected that and reconnected the 250W. That also did not heat up this time! There was the humming noise, but no heat, just a warmth!

    I then connected the old 30W. It worked fine!

    I checked the Output Voltage. It was varying between ~66V-110V.

    What do you think is happening? Did I break the inverter? But, the 30W is working...?
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  • NANOcontrol
    NANOcontrol Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭✭
    #11
    If it is a temperature controlled soldering iron with a temp display, it will be damaged.  These are phase  triggered devices which use the last end of the sine wave to power the heating element which is 24V.  I tried it with a MSW inverter and it instantly flashed and died.  I was able to repair it by replacing the small thermal fuse on the board.  So, most electronic control irons will not work with square waves.
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  • AACS
    AACS Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
    #12
    I brought it home, and tried it with a different battery. The 250W Weller worked fine!
    So, could this issue be related to the battery? I mean, a weak battery? Though, I'd checked the voltage, it was showing 12.2V.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,631 admin
    #13
    In general, AC inverters need pretty decent DC Power connections... For example, using car jumper cables frequently will not run AC inverters (especially the higher wattage units)--Even if they do not have an AC load.

    For DC cabling, double check the connections and each connection should be a "bolted up" type of some sort.. No Alligator Clamps. Inverters should run down to 11.5 volts on the batteries with good cabling. 10.5 volts is a common inverter low battery disconnect voltage.

    I would guess that the soldering guns are pretty "inductive" (the older versions--Don't know about the newest--use a heavy transformer to drop the voltage and raise the current to the tip). MSW inverters are not usually very happy with inductive loads --And for AC induction motors, MSW wave forms can increase the AC motor current by 20% or more (as I recall)--And cause induction motors to overheat.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • AACS
    AACS Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
    #14
    I agree, the connection to 12V should be firm. But, look what the inverter came with:
    I better cut it and use a better connector..

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,631 admin
    #15
    That car connector is good for about 10 amps continuous.
    10 amps x 12 volts = 120 watts
    There is a (roughly} 12 to 25 amp fuse somewhere too (sometimes the plug has an internal plug, and the car itself will have a fuse too).
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • AACS
    AACS Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
    #16
    The fuse should be fine, because it worked with another battery.
    I directly connect it to the battery, using a female socket with clamps. Now, I'll connect it firmly.

    Also, the inverter is 500W. So, the fuse must be around 25-30A. There is none in the plug. May be inside.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,631 admin
    #17
    30 Amps is a lot for a Cigarette Lighter Plug... I would suggest no more than 10-25 Amps max continuous power.

    15 amps * 12 volts = 180 Watts (rough estimate)

    Some cigarette plugs may have a fuse (typically unscrew the nose, and fuse rides into the tip/cap).

    Otherwise, the Vehicle itself will (or at least should) have a 10-15 Amp fuse.

    Yes, you can run a larger inverter on a smaller circuit--As long as you don't draw too much current (AC power) for the plug/electrical wiring.

    The "math" for a 500 Watt inverter--Worst case 12 VDC Current:

    500 Watts * 1/0.85 inverter eff * 1/10.5 volts (battery cutoff) = 56 Amps max continuous draw

    And note that most AC inverter will surge 2x rated Wattage for at least a few seconds (such as starting a motor)...

    A (relatively) conservative NEC (national electric code) table:


    Note that 12 volts does not support very long wire runs because of high currents and relatively low suggested voltage drop of 1.0 volts between inverter and battery bank (i.e., 10.5 battery + 1.0 volt drop = minimum of 11.5 volts at battery bank connection for a 10.5 volt drop at inverter DC terminals).

    You can use a voltage drop calculator to play around with distance/AWG/Current/Drop numbers:


    For example, a 12 volt bus, 14 feet (one way run) of cable, 10 AWG, 30 amps will give 1.0 volt drop:

    Voltage drop: 1.00
    Voltage drop percentage: 8.32%
    Voltage at the end: 11

    For DC wiring, keep it short and heavy from battery bank to AC inverter...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • AACS
    AACS Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
    #18
    You are absolutely right. There was a long extension cable in between. I omitted that and connected it directly and it worked fine. Problem solved. Thank you.

    BTW, it is not connected to a vehicle, it is a solar system. Directly connected to the battery.
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