Need a Lug Crimper

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pabloesguapo
pabloesguapo Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Need a lug crimper that can handle 2/0. Any suggestions? I am hemorrhaging money right now with this and other projects. Looking for a good yet inexpensive one. Found this one on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-K05-1GL-K-Series-Crimping-Tool/dp/B001HWM8A0/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1339006651&sr=1-6

Thanks,
Paul
27 Kyocera panels, 6,500w
24 CG2 6v batteries, 48v, 630Ah
Midnite Classic 150 & Classic 150 Lite in "follow me" mode
(2) Outback fx3648 inverters
Generac ecogen 6kw backup generator
Mate3s
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #2
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    One suggestion:
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    I took a $10.00 pair of Chinese bolt cutters and heated the blade cutting edges and drilled out a crimping die in a couple different sizes. They work like a $250 set. If interested you can go to the Greenlee site and find the size to drill them.

    There is more in the above thread: Question on battery cables

    And this for about $28.

    wind-sun_2209_61298920Hammer Crimp Tool for Large Terminal Lugs


    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    try these guys, got an 8 ton in 5 days via mail.

    add: Shipping in Canada was $23

    they have several models

    http://www.surpluselectro.com/

    add:http://www.surpluselectro.com/Crimping_c_20.html

    hth
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • 2manytoyz
    2manytoyz Solar Expert Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    I particularly like the anvil style crimpers. I bought mine on Ebay years ago. Now I've found this same one available at my local Ace Hardware in the welding section (next to big lugs). The brand on mine is Lenco. Cost is about $15

    It's rated up to 4/0 cable, which is what I'm crimping in these pics.

    dscn7192.jpg

    dscn7193.jpg

    dscn7194.jpg

    I have used this in a 10-ton hydraulic press. Gives a more controlled compression, but takes extra equipment. Most of the time I use the small 2.5 lb sledge to smash it a few times. Makes a very "solid" thunk when completely compressed.
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  • pabloesguapo
    pabloesguapo Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    Ahhh... I see. Thanks for the suggestions. Those helped me direct my search. Found one!

    http://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html?utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase&hft_adv=40010&mr:trackingCode=066E0F9E-782A-E011-B31E-001B2163195C&mr:referralID=NA

    And they're having a sidewalk sale this weekend too. 8)
    27 Kyocera panels, 6,500w
    24 CG2 6v batteries, 48v, 630Ah
    Midnite Classic 150 & Classic 150 Lite in "follow me" mode
    (2) Outback fx3648 inverters
    Generac ecogen 6kw backup generator
    Mate3s
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    Doesn't handle 2/0
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • mikeo
    mikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    This one should on Ebay
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/HYDRAULIC-ELECTRIC-WIRE-CABLE-CRIMPING-CRIMPER-TOOL-/320904913295?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item4ab76c618f
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    Have used the Hammer type crimper for a number of years, and it works well.
    BUT, it is inconvenient many times, especailly when pulling wire through conduit, on the roof, or into a box mounted on a wall etc. You need to pull the wire in to determine the exact length, pull it out and hammer on at least one lug on some solid object, and they try to pull the wire with the lug back into the pipe.

    So, a hydraulic or ratcheting crimper is a great time saver in those situations where a solid substrate/object is not a short distance away. YMMV Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • 2manytoyz
    2manytoyz Solar Expert Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    I have the HF hydraulic model at work too. Works fairly well. The downside is the limited die sizes. And FWIW, a 4/0 lug wont fit inside the jaws of even the largest die set.

    dscn7181.jpg

    dscn7182.jpg

    dscn7183.jpg

    dscn7184.jpg

    dscn7186.jpg
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  • 2manytoyz
    2manytoyz Solar Expert Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    I completely agree with Vic's comment about the anvil type not always being ideal if you don't have a concrete surface to smash it against. I primarily use the anvil crimper for the 2 ga and 4/0 connections on the battery bank & inverters. These are easily measured, cut, and crimped in my garage.

    Another option if the location prohibits using a anvil crimper, and a large dedicated crimper (hundreds of $$) is not feasible, is to use the Thomas & Betts clamp style connectors. I found these at my local Home Depot:

    battcons1.jpg

    battcons2.jpg

    battcons3.jpg

    These are reasonably priced for cables up to ~ 2 gauge. When you look at these connectors for 4/0, they are almost $20 EACH!!! This is why I bought a bag of 4/0 copper crimp type connectors from Amazon instead. $24.59 for a pack of 10: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001E5GR5M/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

    So I use several types of connectors and crimpers. Please with all of these.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    2manytoyz, what ga is that wire you pictured in the first post?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    Hi Robert,

    Yes, completely agree about the T&B terminals available at HD and supply houses, easy, convenient and reusable.

    Wish I had a good (enough) hydrauylic crimper ... some day will pop for one -- am just too cheap for now. Thanks for the nice pics. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    Hammer Crimps are not good. The reason being there is a small amount of "spring" when a metal tube is struck,meaning as the striker hits the lug nit compresses the lug but it then spings apart a small amount and therefore does not make a great joint, and for large cables you need almost "perfect" as by design they will be carrying very high currents.Even the slightest imperfection can cause severe overheating.
    Slow compression of lugs gives by far the best results.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    john p,
    would a vise work well in conjunction with the hammer crimper in your estimation?
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper
    pabloesguapo wrote: »
    Ahhh... I see. Thanks for the suggestions. Those helped me direct my search. Found one!

    http://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html?utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase&hft_adv=40010&mr:trackingCode=066E0F9E-782A-E011-B31E-001B2163195C&mr:referralID=NA

    And they're having a sidewalk sale this weekend too. 8)

    NO !! it lies! The dies are mis-marked. Read the HF reviews on their own pages.

    http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2262.msg26097#msg26097
    covers welding cable, types of lugs, dealing with inspectors who want to see the certified crimp tool......

    I used this $60, 8 ton crimper from ebay, worked fine " Work with wire size 12 AWG to 2/0 AWG "
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330598048548&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1123

    here's the crimp it makes:
    Attachment not found.Attachment not found.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #16
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    I recall someone having made a crimping tool from a bolt cutter/"keys to the city"

    Well I was walking through an antique shop and saw a neat 20" bolt cutter, with nice thick 1/4"+ jaws for $3, so I have a new project, does anyone have a photo of a home made crimper? I search for bolt cutter and the results were not promising...

    Thanks...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #17
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper
    Photowhit wrote: »
    I recall someone having made a crimping tool from a bolt cutter/"keys to the city"

    Well I was walking through an antique shop and saw a neat 20" bolt cutter, with nice thick 1/4"+ jaws for $3, so I have a new project, does anyone have a photo of a home made crimper? I search for bolt cutter and the results were not promising...

    Thanks...
    That be me. I think they are down on my Boat, I'll try to get a picture. As I recall I heated the blade edges to remove the temper and put them in a drill press vise and drilled the hole in the center between the blades the size ( die size ) you need. Then you need to open them and take a belt sander or grinder and remove the cutting edge of the blades and any clearance you need. Stay out toward the end of the blades. I have made several over the years of different size crimps. I use the HF cheapies. I have a small pair I use on # 10 and the large that are for 2/0.

    The first ones I made was for the oval ferrels on used on 3/16 th wire rope on sailboats, I never could find the right size and couldn't see paying $300 for a pair to make a few crimps.

    Something else I have used is a old copper tube flaring tool. Take the one half of the bar that holds the tube as the saddle for the lug to lay in and the point off the screw that makes the flare and a arbor 5 ton press. The point will pierce the lug and make a hole and spread the copper. I usually run some solder in them, by drilling a hole in the end. I'v never had and issues up to 4/0.

    I'v seen some that people beat flat with a hammer and cold welded them on and while ugly they seem to do the job.
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  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    #18
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    Niel yes a good vice and the anvil and striker would work very well. While I have never tried it I cant see why it would not be close to having a cheap and successful crimper. The shape of the die and striker on the "hammer lug maker" are usually ok. Actually its a damm good idea. Why didnt I think of that before you.??
    I have seen high speed film footage of lugs hammered they really do spring apart by half to nearly one millimeter. It really takes a lot of the tension off the cable.
    To get the very best crimps in a hydraulic or similar crimper heat the lug up to at least 100degc and cool the cable end to below 5degc. then compress the lug onto the cable. but you have to do it quickly or the wire will heat up and then it all become self defeating..
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  • 2manytoyz
    2manytoyz Solar Expert Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    #19
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper
    westbranch wrote: »
    2manytoyz, what ga is that wire you pictured in the first post?

    First post, with the anvil crimper, was 4/0 cable.

    The post with the Thomas & Betts clamp style, was 2 gauge.

    The post with the HF hydraulic crimper, was 6 gauge.
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  • 2manytoyz
    2manytoyz Solar Expert Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    #20
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper
    john p wrote: »
    Hammer Crimps are not good. The reason being there is a small amount of "spring" when a metal tube is struck,meaning as the striker hits the lug nit compresses the lug but it then spings apart a small amount and therefore does not make a great joint, and for large cables you need almost "perfect" as by design they will be carrying very high currents.Even the slightest imperfection can cause severe overheating.
    Slow compression of lugs gives by far the best results.

    Been using mine for a while. The terminals, and cables, all remain cool when the inverter is operating. I periodically check each connection to make sure there isn't an issue.

    There are also various ways to compress the terminal. Mashing it flat on the top/bottom, compressing it into a hex die, or bend the top into a V, and put a LEGO type impression on the bottom.

    dscn7194.jpg

    I have used this crimper with a small sledge:

    lug2373.jpg

    And with a 10 ton hydraulic press:

    press2.jpg

    press.jpg

    The lugs I'm using are a tight fit to begin with (any bird-caging of the wire and it won't fit). The result from either smashing with a hammer, or pressing with the hydraulic press, "visually" appear to be equally effective. Both have about the same amount of depth of the LEGO type impression on the bottom of the lugs. Either one is so tight I can't begin to pull it free.

    I will continue to monitor the temperature of these fittings, along with potential corrosion, loose battery connections, etc.

    I understand the concern, and don't disagree that it could be an issue. Just not experiencing it with this specific crimper, wire, and lugs.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #21
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    Well. a lug is a lug, is a lug, Not necessarily. I bought some 4/0 lugs from Mc Master that were called " Heavy Duty " and I never could find a die to fit them. I tried a set of Greenlee Octagon crimpers and they were too big for them, all the crimps would squeeze out on the sides. Your choice of Lugs can make a difference on the crimpers you use. If you use the kind of lug with a flare on them it can make them hard to get in and out of some crimpers, but the straight ones are a pain to get the wire in.
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  • pabloesguapo
    pabloesguapo Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭
    #22
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    Wow. OK, thanks for the heads up on the HF tool. I’ll be steering clear of that one, as I need to crimp on 2/0.

    So, it looks like my two best options are either the Thomas & Betts clamp style connectors (IF I can find them), or the crimper from eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HYDRAULIC-ELECTRIC-WIRE-CABLE-CRIMPING-CRIMPER-TOOL-/320904913295?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item4ab76c618f

    Hmm…
    27 Kyocera panels, 6,500w
    24 CG2 6v batteries, 48v, 630Ah
    Midnite Classic 150 & Classic 150 Lite in "follow me" mode
    (2) Outback fx3648 inverters
    Generac ecogen 6kw backup generator
    Mate3s
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #23
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper
    john p wrote: »
    Niel yes a good vice and the anvil and striker would work very well. While I have never tried it I cant see why it would not be close to having a cheap and successful crimper. The shape of the die and striker on the "hammer lug maker" are usually ok. Actually its a damm good idea. Why didnt I think of that before you.??
    I have seen high speed film footage of lugs hammered they really do spring apart by half to nearly one millimeter. It really takes a lot of the tension off the cable.
    To get the very best crimps in a hydraulic or similar crimper heat the lug up to at least 100degc and cool the cable end to below 5degc. then compress the lug onto the cable. but you have to do it quickly or the wire will heat up and then it all become self defeating..

    i was thinking of putting the crimp tool into the vise and instead of a hammer or hydraulics pushing the crimp in place we would be using the slow pressure of the vise.
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  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    #24
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    Niel that was what I thought exactly you ment.. No disadvantages all advantages and simple to do.
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  • silvertop
    silvertop Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #25
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    I sure do like that hydrauylic crimper! There are times when you need to pre think your crimps if there isnt a solid spot to hammer crimp, Ill need to find one.8) Wifes got us going on vacation monday, and I just took deliv. of # 3 XW-MPPT 60 so I need to pull some wire before she gets home I hate to leave with it not on line:cry:
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #26
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    careful as rushing things can lead to mistakes and you won't catch those mistakes while on vacation.
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  • silvertop
    silvertop Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #27
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    Re: Need a Lug Crimper

    Thanks Niel, I kind of go the other extreme and plan and double check everything..... I did get just a partial array up and running just 400 Watts will be adding another 1200 Watts over the winter. I'm kind of busy now, but I'm kind of like a kid in a candy store ( Wife just grins at me ) . Anyway it made my day to commission the third XW MPPT and have it come on line:D We have last minute packing we'll talk later......8)
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