Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

techntrek · April 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Thanks. I'll have to see when mine arrives - hopefully in about a month.

SteveK · April 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Good luck with that. I doubt you will have a problem instaling it yourself with premade flares. I only used to look at the electric bills. It isn't even a thought anymore.

Dave Angelini · April 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Dave Sparks wrote: »

True Thanks!

I was thinking a learning remote with the stock remote all talking, running an increment temperature change hourly. Doing this with the Rich brute force reset for clouds or low battery. Offgrid we still are in the early stages of making this easy. I would think that once a smart grid inverter is avalilable and a smart heat pump the issue I have will help grid-tie folks also.

Crazy idea, what about obtaining a thermostat for the heat pump that can be programmed over the telephone line or cellular? If you knew the DC voltage also this would solve a big problem of clouds that come in after you leave the house.

Would the interface to Sanyo or Mitsu work with this
http://www.protectedhome.com/deluxe-freezealarm-p-16-l-en.html

XRinger · April 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

I'm sure I've already said this many times.. But if you have a problem with occasional over-current with mini-split, there is a way to shut it down.
Both of my Sanyos are protected from over-current. When a unit draws 10A or more, power is removed for one minute.
(The Sanyo sees this event as a normal grid power failure and recovers within 5 minutes).

My main cause of over-current is defrost mode (accomplished via refrigerant reverse mode).
A Sanyo 24KHS72 coming out of defrost mode tends to ramp up to very high current.
Maybe it's the firmware trying to preform a super fast recovery to setpoint or just a mistake in programming.?.
This winter was so mild, I'm not sure if we had any over-current events, this season..

Anyways, it's not too hard to rig up some over-current protection..
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/appliances-gadgets/1490-diy-230vac-adjustable-power-limiter.html#post16448

This method could be used with any AC power source and with any load (AC, Freezer, Rice cooker & etc),
to precisely limit the maximum amount of current being used.

I have a spare current sensor that I've been thinking of using on the output of an Inverter,
just to keep crazy loads from causing more current than than I think is safe..

Dave Angelini · April 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

XRinger wrote: »

I'm sure I've already said this many times.. But if you have a problem with occasional over-current with mini-split, there is a way to shut it down.
Both of my Sanyos are protected from over-current. When a unit draws 10A or more, power is removed for one minute.
(The Sanyo sees this event as a normal grid power failure and recovers within 5 minutes).

My main cause of over-current is defrost mode (accomplished via refrigerant reverse mode).
A Sanyo 24KHS72 coming out of defrost mode tends to ramp up to very high current.
Maybe it's the firmware trying to preform a super fast recovery to setpoint or just a mistake in programming.?.
This winter was so mild, I'm not sure if we had any over-current events, this season..

Anyways, it's not too hard to rig up some over-current protection..
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/appliances-gadgets/1490-diy-230vac-adjustable-power-limiter.html#post16448

This method could be used with any AC power source and with any load (AC, Freezer, Rice cooker & etc),
to precisely limit the maximum amount of current being used.

I have a spare current sensor that I've been thinking of using on the output of an Inverter,
just to keep crazy loads from causing more current than than I think is safe..

Your solution Rich works nice for you with a Utility. For Offgrid it really is a matter of using the solar power and being able to throttle the unit down (less programmed differential) when clouds reduce the power. Nice to turn it on or off or set the differential. Really nice not to discharge the battery to low battery cutoff.

Example" you leave for work and program the unit to turn on at 10 am and heat or cool to a specific temperature. At noon you look out the window and big clouds or maybe fair weather cumulous are coming in. The device I listed in the link will let you control a mini-split over the landline or cell. It even looks like it will get power or voltage data with an option for a motion alarm. A very nice little controller. I think I am going to experiment with it!

Question for you, have you ever seen the Sanyo/Panasonic PDF that was made only for their service personell? Not the one that is common out there! I just stumbled upon it. Pretty useful?

XRinger · April 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

I'm thinking about the off-grid guy who's taking a nap when the kids come in an crank the AC to max power.
So, instead of a nice steady 400w, the AC is now trying to suck down 1500w.

I've heard that a Morning Star MPPT controller with a relay board can do quite a bit of system control..
(But, I have not read the manual myself)..

I would like to see that document. Please PM me info.

Thanks,
Rich

Dave Angelini · April 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

XRinger wrote: »

I'm thinking about the off-grid guy who's taking a nap when the kids come in an crank the AC to max power.
So, instead of a nice steady 400w, the AC is now trying to suck down 1500w.

I've heard that a Morning Star MPPT controller with a relay board can do quite a bit of system control..
(But, I have not read the manual myself)..

I would like to see that document. Please PM me info

Thanks,
Rich

Rich
1500 watts is an easy load offgrid when the sun is out . Even with 5,000 watts of solar running that 1500 watt load when clouds come in, or turning it on when they clear quickly up in the mountains is the goal. The 400 watt loading is not the goal as much when you are not paying for the power. Different strategy when it clears for 2 hours of the day and you want max heating! Just a different metric! A smart inverter and smart heat pump will one day sense all of this is and more, just not yet. I really think this controller from Emerson climate control is going to solve quite a few problems. It will call you and you can call it for tasks or info about the system.

Do you know if the Sanyo's can run a wired and wireless remote at the same time?
I have nixed the Morningstar already but thanks! Really want this for someone who does not want to do this over the internet.

http://us.sanyo.com/HVAC/Service-Tech-Reference-Materials
Look at the 9 mbyt file from 2010

XRinger · April 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Well, 1500 watts might be a lot of PV to some folks.. I only own about 1300w of PV total.
The 0ver-curren sensor is very adjustable. It could be set for 300 amps at 240vac.
My post was selling the idea that temporary power surges can be controlled,
before they can cause unwanted conditions or events.
I know one guy that had problems controlling the heavy loads placed on his inverter, by his wife.
Seems she had no regard for the state-of-charge.. (The start of a song about solar causing a divorce)?

Not sure about the Sanyo wired Tstat. It might only be on certain models.
I don't think there is anything in my manual on that topic.

Maybe it's HA JEM-A? Does your indoor unit have an un-used connector?

Thanks for that link. I just saved that pdf to my new PC.
I have it on my old PC and it's where I learned about the T-Run terminal.
Allowed me to test my repaired ODU without using an IDU..:p

Dave Angelini · April 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

No, there is not an unused connector but i think they sell a wire kit for the wired thermostat. The telephone controller works by switching between two thermostats. The voice mail like menu tells you the current temp and allows you to pick which thermostat is driving the 24vdc loop. It also tells if power is on and has a set of contacts for alarm of several types. The controller will dial and you can dial it. All for $260 and built in the rust belt.

Utana · May 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

We've started our install on our unit. Its slow going because we can only work on it on the weekends and we have a 5 year old and lots of activities going on. We did get the indoor unit installed, though - yay! We are doing an interesting routing for the line set. We will go through the wall on which the unit is mounted that backs up to a small space where we store brooms between the wall and refrigerator. Then we are routing straight down through the kitchen floor and into the crawl space below, then out an opening in the foundation wall. My husband has started creating the pad outside for the "outdoor unit".

All of this has me thinking and questioning why these units are "outdoor" units and cannot be placed in a basement? I've read the units don't have exhaust. Is that true? Is it a drainage issue? Would they be loud in the basement? We have a partially finished basement, but the unfinished part has a drain for the rainwater that often gets in.

Kelly

XRinger · May 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

If you installed the ODU in the basement, in the winter, it would dehumidify down there, and you would need a good drain (pan?).
During the winter, it would suck ALL the heat out of your basement. You could end up with frozen pipes.
In certain conditions, it could hit it's low limit (no heat left to pump) and you would need to open the basement windows (and doors?).

In the summer, it would keep the basement very hot.. And maybe very humid too.

People do install heat pump hot water heaters in their basements. Mostly, they are small, in the 6000 BTUh range.
They keep the basement dry and cool, by pumping all the heat out of the basement air, into a hot water tank..

They work pretty well, but up in far north (Maine) there is the a lot less warmth in the basement air.
If they have a small basement, it won't work very well.
In the state of GA, a domestic hot water heat pump would likely work great..

Dave Angelini · May 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

But it would be very quiet......Hey Rich!

XRinger · May 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Dave Sparks wrote: »

But it would be very quiet......Hey Rich!

Hey Dave!!

I was looking around and saw that Panasonic has changed the model numbers of the Sanyo product line. I found a cross reference that listed my new model number.. KE24NKU
http://www.pexsupply.com/Panasonic-KE24NKU-24200-BTU-Ductless-Single-Zone-Mini-Split-Wall-Mounted-Heat-Pump-Air-Conditioner
Price seems to be about the same. I'm amazed these are still selling, after all these years. Since there are newer units with better performance..

I'm still planing on trying to build a hot water ASHP to run in my basement. Slowly picking up the parts..

Utana · May 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Just wanted to thank everyone again on this thread. Our mini-split is up and running!! We called around to quite a few HVAC contractors and very few of them seemed to understand these mini-split heat pumps. One of them asked what kind of freon our unit used and told us there would be a charge for adding freon. They didn't even know these units come with what you need for a 25' line set.

We finally found a guy on Craigslist of all places. He happens to be from Bulgaria and has installed hundreds of these. He was super impressed at the unit I bought saying it was built in Thailand instead of China. Apparently most of the Mistubishi units sold in the US are made in China and he felt the Thailand ones are just a bit better. He also said our DIY job was "very good", so we were happy to hear that. I was thinking of buying one of those cheaper models available on Amazon for my next install, they are getting good reviews, but this guy talked me out of that. He said to stick with Sanyo, Fujitsu, or Mitsubishi, that the others are cheaply made and they have mechanical problems that will cost us more in the long run. But any of these three major brands should last many years without trouble.

We haven't had a real test of what this unit can do yet, as the temperature has been under 80 degrees all weekend, but hopefully soon. It has been a lot drier in the back living room where we have the unit, though. And it really is whisper quiet! Never thought I would look forward to the 90+ degree Georgia weather, but I am ready now.

Kelly

XRinger · May 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

You aren't the first mini-split DIYer that got their HVAC guy off Craigslist.
Hopefully, you got him to sign off on your warranty registration form, (if it's like our 1st Sanyo).
Ours (from China) failed after about 45 days and had to be replaced by Sanyo.
Cost me peanuts for labor to replace the outdoor unit after it arrived.

We had some 80s yesterday, and we had those Sanyos humming..

At least for a few hours anyways..

Cheers,
Rich

techntrek · May 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Congratulations! Happy to read about another satisfied customer. Don't forget to post some before-and-after energy numbers if you have them.

Unfortunately our planned install will be delayed probably until the fall. Not all bad - we decided we needed a new tow vehicle now for our summer trips and the mini-split would have to wait a little longer. Just got a new-to-us Suburban. Love it so far.

Ralph Day · May 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Is that the hybrid Suburban or the whole electric version?

Ralph

techntrek · May 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Just finished mounting the wind turbine on the front bumper, and covered the roof with PV. :cool:

XRinger · May 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

I got my wife one of those micro hybrid Suburbans.. It's a Prius C 2.
I took it across town yesterday (to get the inspection sticker)
and was surprised to see the display said 70.2 MPG..

In town, the trip meter shows that 55 to 65% of the miles are done in EV mode.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Xringer/CRV/P1000402.jpg

westbranch · May 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

techntrek wrote: »

Just finished mounting the wind turbine on the front bumper, and covered the roof with PV. :cool:

but the turbine wont be able to 'push' you, being out front that is....

Ralph Day · June 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Just sitting here in the heat made me think about the ac side of a minisplit. After calling a local hvac installer I'm considering one. There's old ductwork/evaporator from central air, but I need 110vac source since I'm only outfitted with an SW4048. Utility power is available for 240vac, but then it wouldn't be running off the renewables. (no net metering). The price will be just over $2000cdn for 12,000btu unit installed (plus taxes after that).

Should I be looking for inverter type units exclusively, or are they mostly all low power draws?

Now to sell the wife on the idea.

Ralph

BB. · June 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

I think you really are looking for "inverter" type mini-splits... That is the "secret sauce" for an "off grid" friendly use of AC power (low surge current, programmable to reduce average/peak power at lower cooling settings, etc.).

However, it appears the smaller Sanyo's (now Panasonic) are the few commonly available 120 VAC mini-split units I have seen (in my little research).

Otherwise, you may be forced to changing to a 120/240 VAC inverter to run the larger mini-splits.

-Bill

XRinger · June 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

It was so cool here yesterday, we had to wear jackets for our 14 mile breakfast bike ride..

This morning, before heading out for a few hours, I turned on both Sanyos and set them for 26C.
When we were coming home, the car's temp display showed 90F. (The high today was 93.6°F)
We came into a nice cool house and cranked the temp down to 24C (75.2F feels cool)!

We love these machines!!

The only problem is, it gets a little too cool sometimes.. Making me want to wear long pants instead of Bermuda shorts. 8)

Dave Angelini · June 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Yes all the inverter type splits should allow the differential tempertature programming which allows one to limit the power useage.

LG or the other Korean company even has one that a customer of mine uses that the indoor unit is a picture (art) to make it blend better for picky folks. He says the outdoor unit is actually as quiet as the indoor. They all are pretty nice and save even more energy when you take the duct loss into account.

RandomJoe · June 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Ralph Day wrote: »

Should I be looking for inverter type units exclusively, or are they mostly all low power draws?

Definitely inverter units. The beauty is that you can reduce max current draw. I have a 9000 BTU mini-split now, but it's a standard compressor model. My available options are 0W or 1000W. During a nice, sunny day after the batteries are charged that isn't a problem, but if it's overcast or partly cloudy I can't run it without eating into the batteries. With the inverter style I could lower it to 600W or 300W (med / low) and continue to get *some* cooling, as well as starting it earlier / running it later when the sun isn't fully overhead.

They also don't have the huge inrush of a standard compressor, which would be much kinder to the battery bank and off-grid inverter.

I'm so tempted to get a heat-pump model to replace mine... I just don't *need* it! :cool:

XRinger · June 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

RandomJoe wrote: »

Definitely inverter units. The beauty is that you can reduce max current draw. I have a 9000 BTU mini-split now, but it's a standard compressor model. My available options are 0W or 1000W. During a nice, sunny day after the batteries are charged that isn't a problem, but if it's overcast or partly cloudy I can't run it without eating into the batteries. With the inverter style I could lower it to 600W or 300W (med / low) and continue to get *some* cooling, as well as starting it earlier / running it later when the sun isn't fully overhead.

They also don't have the huge inrush of a standard compressor, which would be much kinder to the battery bank and off-grid inverter.

I'm so tempted to get a heat-pump model to replace mine... I just don't *need* it! :cool:

You might be able to cool using 300 watts with a 9000 BTUh inverter system,
since I'm running two 24,000 BTU systems right now and they are using a total of 800w to keep us cool..
Hot here today, http://pauland.net/daily.php but we've only used 3.7 kWh since midnight.
That's about 13 hours. 285watts per hour on average..

dsharp9000 · June 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

hello all,

new to the forum and joined as a result of this thread (seems to be a lot of other good information here also)

anyway, ive been considering install 2 9000 Mitsubishi 26 seer units or one 20.2 seer 18000 hyper heat mitsubishi unit:

http://www.homeenergyproducts.net/files/18k_hyper_heat.pdf

I have not seen the 18000 hyper heat Mitsubishi unit in this thread ... also its not listed on the mitisubishi system page....

http://catalog.mitsubishipro.com/viewitems/mr-slim-m-series-heat-pumps/msz-wall-mounted-inverter-heat-pumps?&bc=100|1140|1141|1143

in any event, its curious that the max watts consumed between the 9000 units and 18000 units is similar ....

150 - 2250 for 9000 unit

vs

570 - 2480 for 18000 unit

i only bring up the max wattage as was considering putting 2 9000 units based on the seer; however, if installed two it seems to me then they have potential to spike to almost 5000 watts if both were operating at same time vs half that with the one 18000 unit.... any way dont like the big wattage spike with two units vs one

Also, anyone look at the 28 seer 9000 unit by lg or the 26 seer 12000 unit

Im just thinking im better off installing one 18000 unit rather than two 9000 units based on above... would love to get actual data of power input of these systems including wattage spike at various temps

....im leaning toward the 18000 unit... i also need a 24,000 unit for another area ... any suggestions on best unit for 18000 or 24000 unit appreciated (i like the higher seer models)... also any suggestion as to to installing two high seer units (ie: 2 9000 = 18000) vs 1 18000 as far as potential energy savings or spike in watts also appreciated.

8)

Dave Angelini · June 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

If you are doing the install yourself or helping the warranty should be looked at. The other concept that many of the pro's miss here is that they are designing and sizing for the average user who wants to cool a hot house down in 15 or 30 minutes. The strategy that I developed here for offgrid is cooling down a house early and keeping it there all day. You do not need ducting or fans or multiple units for 1800 square feet or so if you are cooling during the hours that the sun is out. Places that do not cool at night or high humidity locations will need another strategy. Good Luck!

XRinger · June 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

"in any event, its curious that the max watts consumed between the 9000 units and 18000 units is similar ....

150 - 2250 for 9000 unit
vs
570 - 2480 for 18000 unit"

If the 9k unit only uses 150w at low cooling, then two of them will use 300w..
Compared to the low of 570w for the 18k unit (using 270w more), I would buy two of the 9k systems,
if other factors were equal. (Price etc).

I've been wondering if one used a 120vac outdoor unit, could it be plugged into a regular 120 GFI outdoor outlet.?.
Might save yourself a little money on electrician cost. In some cities they don't mind if a home owner changes
out old or broken 120vac outlets, or replaces old standard outlets with GFI outlets. So long as the new parts meet code.

I've never really looked at the install book for a 120 outdoor unit, but I assumed the code requires a disconnect box outdoors..
But, if the power fed down from the indoor unit's conduit tube.. A 120ac plug could hang out the bottom of the indoor unit..?.

PhilS · June 2012

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

BB. wrote: »

However, it appears the smaller Sanyo's (now Panasonic) are the few commonly available 120 VAC mini-split units I have seen (in my little research).
-Bill

I was recommending a mini-split, and jumped to my bookmarked page at minisplitsystems.com but found Sanyo was no longer listed. What happened? Panasonic bought 'em? No longer offered but a similar unit is offered by Panasonic?

Phil

Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

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