600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

2

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  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    I do not know if my "method" applies to your freezer but I had a similar problem with my Dewalt saw. Every time I started the saw my generator stopped with the overload LED lit. Then a friend of mine told me to use the longest extension cord I had between the saw and the AC outlet. I connected a 25m (about 82 ft) extension cord and the saw started without the generator giving up! I guess this will only work if your inverter is slightly under-powered.
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    _OS_ wrote: »
    I do not know if my "method" applies to your freezer but I had a similar problem with my Dewalt saw. Every time I started the saw my generator stopped with the overload LED lit. Then a friend of mine told me to use the longest extension cord I had between the saw and the AC outlet. I connected a 25m (about 82 ft) extension cord and the saw started without the generator giving up! I guess this will only work if your inverter is slightly under-powered.

    At this point it's worth a try. Either it will work or it won't. Idea is the resistance of the long cord will reduce the heavy surge. The question is, will it reduce the voltage too far as well, and would the inverter still have enough guts to get things going. Give it a try.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,261 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    YostFMX wrote: »
    .... (after xantrex e-mails me back).

    Don't hold your breath, I don't think the x-me do email. ever.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • YostFMXYostFMX Solar Expert Posts: 94 ✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    Tried the, extension cord, didn't work...
  • YostFMXYostFMX Solar Expert Posts: 94 ✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    I've watched some videos on youtube about hard start capacitors and seen they were using camp meters to test start up amps. Will a amp camp meter tell you true start up amps? Are they fast enough? Next question is, is there any change a hard start capacitor is going to catch on fire/start a fire in my house (thats what I'm most scared of). I'm thinking a hard start capacitor is maybe a better way to go so its not so hard on my 460ah battery bank. It may suck almost all the 460 amps from my batteries on start up with based on another youtube video of a 1600 watt heat gun using 480A (DC) from the this guys 900ah batteries.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,614 admin
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    Yes, you can get AC clamp meters with in-rush hold... Here is "2manytoyz" using his Fluke (near bottom of page):

    http://www.2manytoyz.com/yamaha2400.html

    It may be difficult find an inexpensive meter with this function.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • YostFMXYostFMX Solar Expert Posts: 94 ✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    Ordered a xantrex prowatt (true sine) sw2000. problem fixed (I hope...)
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    update us when you put the new inverter on to be sure it fixed the problem.
  • South AfricaSouth Africa Solar Expert Posts: 295 ✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    I know I keep on beating this drum. A 2nd hand / or one that still works but has been chucked, online UPS (just replace the small 9ah batteries, is plug and play for people like me who get lost 95% of the time with all the tech.

    Even a new one could have been cheaper than a new inverter.
  • TobitTobit Solar Expert Posts: 41
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    Not sure if I should start a new thread, I know this subject gets brought up a lot. However, this seemed to be the closest in relation to my question. Ufortunately, the OP never followed back up to let us know if his new inverter solved his problem.

    I just purchased a 5.2 cu. ft. freezer for my future homestead and I wonder if anyone could recommend an inverter that might work well with it. I'm not sure exactly how much start up voltage/current is, I don't have any meters that can catch the in-rush current quick enough, but I know the cheap 300W 12V inverter in my truck doesn't work. My Kill-A-Watt and some other multi-testers I have are showing between 74W (0.74A) and 84W (0.84A) when the compressor is running.

    My system will be a lot like Cariboocoots in PV size and battery bank size.. My bank will be be at 225 AH 24V. He uses an Outback 3524 but I just don't know if I can swing that in the budget especially with only the freezer on the inverter. I'd like to stay in the $1000 range so that puts me into the category of something like the Magnum 1800W 24V Modified Sine with Charger. What do all think?
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    Tobit wrote: »
    Not sure if I should start a new thread, I know this subject gets brought up a lot. However, this seemed to be the closest in relation to my question. Ufortunately, the OP never followed back up to let us know if his new inverter solved his problem.

    I just purchased a 5.2 cu. ft. freezer for my future homestead and I wonder if anyone could recommend an inverter that might work well with it. I'm not sure exactly how much start up voltage/current is, I don't have any meters that can catch the in-rush current quick enough, but I know the cheap 300W 12V inverter in my truck doesn't work. My Kill-A-Watt and some other multi-testers I have are showing between 74W (0.74A) and 84W (0.84A) when the compressor is running.

    My system will be a lot like Cariboocoots in PV size and battery bank size.. Mine bank will be run at 225 AH 24V. He uses an Outback 3524 but I just don't know if I can swing that in the budget especially with only the freezer on the inverter. I'd like to stay in the $1000 range so that puts me into the category of something like the Magnum 1800W 24V Modified Sine with Charger. What do all think?
    You can get a Outback GFX 1424 Sine Wave @ 24 v for around $1,000 + $200 Mate. It has 1400 W with 2800 W Surge. It'll give you Generator Support and a whole lot of flexible charging capabilities.
  • TobitTobit Solar Expert Posts: 41
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    You can get a Outback GFX 1424 Sine Wave @ 24 v for around $1,000 + $200 Mate. It has 1400 W with 2800 W Surge. It'll give you Generator Support and a whole lot of flexible charging capabilities.
    Thanks, I'll add it to my short list. I've also just left a message for an electrician friend of mine to see if he has a meter than can capture the in-rush so I know exactly what I am dealing with.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    Avoid any MSW inverter when you're trying to run a motor; it just makes matters worse.
  • TobitTobit Solar Expert Posts: 41
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    Avoid any MSW inverter when you're trying to run a motor; it just makes matters worse.
    Ok, seemed to make sense to me, but I thought someone mentioned there was an issue with pure sine wave inverters. I am likely wrong, and so are they, information overload is terrible on this subject.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    Tobit wrote: »
    Ok, seemed to make sense to me, but I thought someone mentioned there was an issue with pure sine wave inverters. I am likely wrong, and so are they, information overload is terrible on this subject.

    No, it's the other way 'round. Pure sine is like utility power, or even better. So-called "modified sine" is actually multiple square waves, not smoothed. Nor is every MSW inverter the same. In essence it has the equivalent of large amounts of harmonic distortion; rises/falls in Voltage off what the 'normal' waveform would be. Motors (AC induction type) do not like this. It makes them start harder, run hotter, and fail quicker.
  • TobitTobit Solar Expert Posts: 41
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    Yeah Coot. I'm hoping my friend has a meter that can capture the in-rush so I know what I am dealing with. I am quite pleased with the operating current, I just want to buy the right inverter from the start.
  • TobitTobit Solar Expert Posts: 41
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    You can get a Outback GFX 1424 Sine Wave @ 24 v for around $1,000 + $200 Mate. It has 1400 W with 2800 W Surge. It'll give you Generator Support and a whole lot of flexible charging capabilities.
    Are you referring to this? That seems like a great unit for the price. However, what does "not ETL listed for use in the USA" mean? Thankfully, I am in a location in the US where permits are not an issue nor are building codes but not sure what this statement implies.

    http://www.altestore.com/store/Inverters/Off-Grid-Inverters-Capable-of-Grid-Tie/Outback-International-Series-GFX1424-1400W-24V-120Vac-Inverter/p9613/
  • jonrjonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    Tobit wrote: »
    I'm hoping my friend has a meter that can capture the in-rush so I know what I am dealing with. I

    I'm pretty sure that one can take the low level voltage output from a clamp-on AC current probe and feed it into a sound card on a PC (line in) and then look at it with free software such as Zelscope. But I haven't tried it (I have several real oscilloscopes). Calibration could be done by comparing it to a steady-state Kill-A-Watt reading.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    Thats the one. The ETL listing is a certification like the UL or CSA for Canada. I really do not know who requires it here in the USA, most except the UL listing.

    http://www.intertek.com/marks/etl/
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    I know that MidNite sends their products to get ETL approval.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    Tobit wrote: »
    what does "not ETL listed for use in the USA" mean? Thankfully, I am in a location in the US where permits are not an issue nor are building codes but not sure what this statement implies.

    Check with your insurance company... it may mean that they don't have to pay a claim on a house fire if they think your equipment caused the fire.

    --vtmaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Check with your insurance company... it may mean that they don't have to pay a claim on a house fire if they think your equipment caused the fire.

    --vtmaps
    So many May's and Could's in this world. The same Could be true if you install a Solar Panel on a roof without a structural certification from a Qualified Structural Engineer. The operative words being Could and Qualified, Check with your insurance company.
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    So many May's and Could's in this world. The same Could be true if you install a Solar Panel on a roof without a structural certification from a Qualified Structural Engineer. The operative words being Could and Qualified.

    And it's all about the insurance companies demand to have someone they can blame for anything that may or could go wrong - - - so they won't have to pay a claim. And if by chance (horror of horrors) they DO have to pay, they know who they can go after to get their money back.
    I really don't know why I pay for insurance - - i know they won't cover me if there's a problem. In the meantime they just keep taking my money.
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    And it's all about the insurance companies demand to have someone they can blame for anything that may or could go wrong - - - so they won't have to pay a claim. And if by chance (horror of horrors) they DO have to pay, they know who they can go after to get their money back.
    I really don't know why I pay for insurance - - i know they won't cover me if there's a problem. In the meantime they just keep taking my money.
    I won't buy any Insurance from a company that uses their own employee Adjusters. I look for companies that use outside Independent non-employee adjusters. After many years of dealing with them , you'll come out the best.

    From someone that actually manufactured equipment with a UL and CSA certification, it's all a racket for someone to make money off someone's else's effort. All the certification people are bitter competitors and play games with each other. AHJ's all come up with requirements based on what ? The standard is that there is no standard, your just at the whim of your location.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    I won't buy any Insurance from a company that uses their own employee Adjusters. I look for companies that use outside Independent non-employee adjusters. After many years of dealing with them , you'll come out the best.

    From someone that actually manufactured equipment with a UL and CSA certification, it's all a racket for someone to make money off someone's else's effort. All the certification people are bitter competitors and play games with each other. AHJ's all come up with requirements based on what ? The standard is that there is no standard, your just at the whim of your location.

    None of us who have been on this tired old Earth for any length of time can argue against that.
    I think we've all had our share of experiences that prove it out.
    A few too many experiences sometimes. :roll:
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?
    And it's all about the insurance companies demand to have someone they can blame for anything that may or could go wrong - - - so they won't have to pay a claim. And if by chance (horror of horrors) they DO have to pay, they know who they can go after to get their money back.
    I really don't know why I pay for insurance - - i know they won't cover me if there's a problem. In the meantime they just keep taking my money.

    Well you have to play the game with the insurers. I had a pretty good hail storm a couple years back and the insurance company was actually pretty darn good. My house hadn't been painted for almost 10 years, the hail damage the paint to the point of knocking it off the stucco exterior. The painted the whole house.

    My new building had green stucco on it at the time, they fixed the stucco and repaint the whole building.

    The screens on the house got damaged, but they were 15+ years old, they replaced about 75% of the screens.

    My solar panels were inspected by a external vendor to see if there was any damage to them, lucked out there. But when I installed them I informed the insurance in writing (including photos) about the cost and value of the panels. I did the same on the new building, come to find out no rate increase as one out building was already covered.

    All 3 of my cars got damage, they repaired all 3 cars.

    Yes there was a deductible, but that is always a balance between payment and risk.

    BTW they just gave me a check and I got to negotiate all the repairs, there check actually covered everything and my deductible was unneeded to be a contribution for the repairs.

    After all that no hike in rates, which is understandable as they were still break even (or ahead) compared to 15 years worth of premiums.

    I have to say generally top notch companies give top notch service.
  • TobitTobit Solar Expert Posts: 41
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    I needed a new meter anyway so I went out and ordered one capable of also capturing inrush current. It's not super accurate when measuring inrush but gives me a good idea for ball-parking.

    So my little freezer that draws only 0.85A when running actually has a inrush current pushing 12A when the compressor first kicks on. That's around 1200W. I'm going to need an pure sine wave inverter much larger than I originally hoped. Outback has that 1400W model (2900W surge for 5s) I am hoping will work but I wondering if I should go larger.

    What do you guys think I should do for inverter sizing based on my inrush finding? Array wattage of 750W, 225 AH 24V bank, with only the freezer on the inverter.

    Attachment not found.
  • john pjohn p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    The inrush current will be about that. A1500 w SW inverter will be adequate providing its not also supplying power to another high continuous current device.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    For those without meters capable of taking these sort of readings here's a short cut:

    Will it run off a standard 15 Amp household outlet? That's 1800 Watts, rarely (but sometimes) a tad more on start up. So "one outlet's worth" is usually a 2kW inverter.

    If you look at the self-consumption of various inverters you'll see that a smaller inverter does not necessarily consume less power than a larger one so there is often no saving in buying the smaller one.
  • jonrjonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 600w Inverter won't run 1.2a chest freeze?

    I'd do all you can to reduce start up current and then size the inverter. Big inverters tend to be inefficient at low loads (like .85A).

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

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