78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

24

Comments

  • nnsharda
    nnsharda Registered Users Posts: 10
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Oddly enough, I did ask a chinese friend about direct ordering from Shanghai....he got back to me in two days with a solid price of .90/watt. So I think that 78cents is good but not great and if people are having a lot of trouble with SunElec then they could certainly wait and the prices will get reasonable. My friend did not seem to think they were "dumping" and stated the manufacturers have always sold their panels for just above one dollar per watt, the huge markup was all due to the resellers....here in the grand olde USA!

    Lets here it for greed, boys.
  • jtdiesel65
    jtdiesel65 Solar Expert Posts: 242 ✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I bought 8 suntech panels from them ~2 yrs ago. I didn't have a problem.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    nnsharda wrote: »
    ... I did ask a chinese friend about direct ordering from Shanghai....he got back to me in two days with a solid price of .90/watt. So I think that 78cents is good but not great ....

    FOB China!!!! vs FOB Miami there lies the difference.

    I guess some people don't care about shipping, I once sold a Linhof Technicia to a guy in Japan, He choose the 7-10 day shipping over best rate (14-45days) ( ($280 vs $70)

    Or more to the point my electric company claims to sell electric for .09 a Kw but they want $25 a month for the privilege
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I placed an order for 2 pallets (56 panels/215W each) from them when they first started selling them. They were very quick to secure the payment via 2 cards I used. I called them a few days ago and they told me the panels are in Belgium and would take 2 months to arrive to me.
    Told me $600 freight for 2 pallets, but charged $750 instead.

    Have been researching inverters for 12KW array and like the Fronius IG Plus 11.4 uni (good price, light weight (HF), built in data logger) but not so confident after several owners complaining about the MPP hunting issues with them and no resolution so far.

    Only other high voltage grid-tie inverter is SMA I guess, would 2 of SB5000US be plenty or do I need to get 2 of SB6000US at $2700 each? These are heavy/low frequency with maybe big transformers and have to buy their OEM piggy back com cards.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    cowboyrx wrote: »
    .....
    Told me $600 freight for 2 pallets, but charged $750 instead......

    Did they start shipping them ??
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    mike90045 wrote: »
    Did they start shipping them ??

    No, they charged the card upon ordering.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    cowboyrx wrote: »
    No, they charged the card upon ordering.

    I've been charged for the panels only, and was told shipping would be charged when they shipped. Just bending the charge card rules a bit... No shipping charge on my CC yet..

    update - did get a response from email - TOW MOOR WEAKS FOR COMPLEET TRANSACTION BE PACIENTE.

    That's a direct cut & paste :confused:
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I have an invoice and paid for Shipping and handling to Steedman Mo, $415 for a single pallet with a lift gate truck, though they neglected to add that it was with a lift gate truck on the invoice.

    They be cheap,...

    ...but it's a wonder they can do business like they do.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • bmet
    bmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    Photowhit wrote: »
    I have an invoice and paid for Shipping and handling to Steedman Mo, $415 for a single pallet with a lift gate truck, though they neglected to add that it was with a lift gate truck on the invoice.

    They be cheap,...

    ...but it's a wonder they can do business like they do.

    I have an invoice to Quihi, Tx. for 8 panels, $300 shipping. No listing of lift gate, so I imagine I'll have to off-load one panel at a time. I was expecting cost to be a little higher, but perhaps the owner was giving me a break since I started the stink over 'small' orders.
  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    mike90045 wrote: »
    update - did get a response from email - TOW MOOR WEAKS FOR COMPLEET TRANSACTION BE PACIENTE.

    Maybe the guy has a scottish accent ;)
  • mikeo
    mikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    update - did get a response from email - TOW MOOR WEAKS FOR COMPLEET TRANSACTION BE PACIENTE
    My guess Cuban accent:) They show a picture of a loaded cargo ship saying the panels are due in Miami on the 18th. Expect my shipment after 1st of year.
  • Shane Jackson
    Shane Jackson Solar Expert Posts: 49
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I just got off the phone with Sun Elec as I was wanting to add some "BOS" stuff to my order and was informed I dont have an invoice for my evergreen panels??? WTF!!! I mailed a check a month ago (not cleared - dont know if I should blame USPS or Sun...) regardless I tried to pay for the panels when I was finally able to place my order. Long story short I was told to just send a check and not to worry about it.

    I was told that I could send a wire transfer and if some panels became available I would get them or I could have a refund or order other panels (at a higher price...)

    Anyone else have any problems? Smells like bait and switch to me....
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I think this was more of a fire sale/with some trust in them as they required imediate cash to reduce/iliminate the need to float a loan for the panels. I have heard from someone who has been on the phone to them for several hours that they are likely to have some extras, but I think that is more likely his hopeful interpitation.

    It was apparent when I called that they had screeners and sales people, if you never talked with a second person on the phone, you might well have been given bad information from someone who was hired for a few days. They wanted the money up front for this, and in the end wanted prompt payment. I paid via Credit/Debit card and sat in the bank to do a 1 time increase in my limit, indeed I had to do this twice as I couldn't get through to a live person the 1st time.

    I had an invoice # before I paid.

    I was considering trying to switch my order to battery nominal rated panels (12 or 24 volt nominal rather than the 26 volt rated panels) but I'm sure any confusion when they are processing a years worth of business in 40 days would be ill advised. I'll likely waist 40-50% of power produced for the first year using some back up Charge controllers and a single 60 amp PWM type until I can afford a couple Classics, though If my car is still running well in the fall, I might take the money out of my car funds.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I'm still in limbo, CC was charged over a month ago....
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • bmet
    bmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I had an invoice too, but it took two weeks for the sales woman to figure out how to email it to me. In fact she was never successful until I emailed her and asked her to 'reply' within the browser window. In trying to talk with her over the phone, her accent was so harsh I could not understand most of what she said, and we ended-up phonetically spelling key words. It's not my favorite way to communicate.
    Photowhit wrote: »
    I think this was more of a fire sale/with some trust in them as they required imediate cash to reduce/iliminate the need to float a loan for the panels. I have heard from someone who has been on the phone to them for several hours that they are likely to have some extras, but I think that is more likely his hopeful interpitation.

    It was apparent when I called that they had screeners and sales people, if you never talked with a second person on the phone, you might well have been given bad information from someone who was hired for a few days. They wanted the money up front for this, and in the end wanted prompt payment. I paid via Credit/Debit card and sat in the bank to do a 1 time increase in my limit, indeed I had to do this twice as I couldn't get through to a live person the 1st time.

    I had an invoice # before I paid.

    I was considering trying to switch my order to battery nominal rated panels (12 or 24 volt nominal rather than the 26 volt rated panels) but I'm sure any confusion when they are processing a years worth of business in 40 days would be ill advised. I'll likely waist 40-50% of power produced for the first year using some back up Charge controllers and a single 60 amp PWM type until I can afford a couple Classics, though If my car is still running well in the fall, I might take the money out of my car funds.
  • Volvo Farmer
    Volvo Farmer Solar Expert Posts: 209 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Crazy thread.

    I have also recently done business with Sunelec. I was in Phoenix, found out their physical address and went and beat on the door of their office adjacent to a huge warehouse. I shocked the three guys in a 350SF office, because they only do business over the phone. They weren't real happy to see me there but still placed my order. I specifically wanted to buy something that was in the warehouse next door and they obliged my request. Anyways I got a small pile of 170W 24V nominal panels for $1.23 watt and picked them up less than 24 hrs after ordering. Also got a Classic 200 for cheaper than anywhere else I have seen on the 'net.

    This is a weird company and I don't know if I'd ever deal with them on the 'net or over the phone, but I had a great experience with the way I did it.
  • Shane Jackson
    Shane Jackson Solar Expert Posts: 49
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Anyone receive their panels yet?
  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    well I cancelled my order a week ago
    they tried to ship the panels to me today
    refused shipment and told them to send back to sunelec.

    Kind of felt bad, but it was not my mistake because i definitely notified them I wanted it cancelled way before they shipped them.
  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    How could you cancel a prepaid deal?
    Unless you had you money back, I wouldn't refuse shipment, this isn't amazon where refusing shipment is a guaranteed way not be billed
  • arkieoscar
    arkieoscar Solar Expert Posts: 101 ✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Neighbor called yesterday and said he got his pallet of panels. Made appointment for me to come set up his XW6048 and two XW CC's for him.
    Said there was no damage and he was happy with them.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Well, my credit card was charged for the shipping, on Jan 2nd, so it looks like there is some movement happening.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Shane Jackson
    Shane Jackson Solar Expert Posts: 49
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Just got off the phone with R&L Carriers. They have a delivery for me and will be bringing it Monday..... Sitting with fingers crossed.
  • jtdiesel65
    jtdiesel65 Solar Expert Posts: 242 ✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I recently bought 8 panels from them. These were not the 78 cent/w panels, but others in order to match and extend existing arrays. I placed my order over the web and my credit card was charged the same day. A day after this I got an invoice and a credit card release document. I figured there was no action I needed to take since they already charged my card. After about a week I hadn't heard anything from them about things being shipped so I called. I've bought from them before, but for some reason they wanted a photocopy of both sides of my credit card and a photo copy of my ID. I told them I wasn't going to do that. After a bunch of phone calls, I gave them an old order number from 2009 which I guess was enough identification and the order went thru and it was shipped the next day.
  • Shane Jackson
    Shane Jackson Solar Expert Posts: 49
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Not sure why you would cancel them at that price!! But I am sure you have your reasons. I just hope you paid via credit card and have proof that you canceled prior to shipping. I'm sure sun wont be happy about the shipping fees but I am sure someone else will be happy to have a chance to buy the panels at an amazing price.

    well I cancelled my order a week ago
    they tried to ship the panels to me today
    refused shipment and told them to send back to sunelec.

    Kind of felt bad, but it was not my mistake because i definitely notified them I wanted it cancelled way before they shipped them.
  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    well the project didn't get funding Like I thought, hence I had to cancel.

    I no longer think it is an amazing price, they are offering panels that are new for 78 cents and my guess the price will only go further down.

    If you aren't going to install IMMEDIATELY I would just wait. dont' make my mistake and order panels, get busy and not install them till 6 months latter after the price had dropped 50%.
  • oldchuck
    oldchuck Registered Users Posts: 7
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    My two pallets have shipped. Expecting them Monday or Tuesday.

    I'm not so sure there will be any more quick price reductions, rolland. Markets are trying to clear up a surplus right now. Once the surplus clears it wouldn't surprise me if prices went up a bit. There are a lot of moving parts to the price of a solar panel, not the least of which is politics.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    My panels arrived today, I had ordered 20 and had a reloaded pallet, likely purpose built in Florida, It was made with white pine 2x4's and sould have been rejected, white pine is a very soft wood and the bottom panel arrived broken. They gave me the option of replacing the panel or refund on panel, and I'll ask them to reship.

    I like the corner braces, evergreen has a nice design and they are designed so you can screw in the bottom corner braces, which wasn't done. The pallet flexed so bad the pallet jack wouldn't lift it high enough to roll so the driver lifted them down to me. Knowing I would never lift the pallet I rebuilt it on me trailer to take to my new place @9 miles away. seams to have worked fine, I have the second half loaded for the trip now.

    I was disappointed that these were china made evergreen panels, the framing, though nicely ridged, does not appear to be as strong as the tad smaller NingBo panels I own. The blemishes appear to be very minor chipping and a grey cast on some of the cells, somewhat less than my us Evergreen blems.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • bmet
    bmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    well the project didn't get funding Like I thought, hence I had to cancel.

    I no longer think it is an amazing price, they are offering panels that are new for 78 cents and my guess the price will only go further down.

    If you aren't going to install IMMEDIATELY I would just wait. dont' make my mistake and order panels, get busy and not install them till 6 months latter after the price had dropped 50%.

    I would disagree with you for one reason. The CEO of that company already projected a substantial price increase in the near future

    To the Mods, this is not speculation of a business plan. He blogged about the increase, citing Congress and Special Interest group as the driving factor

    On my order, I received it yesterday. It's been cloudy, so hoping tomorrow will be able to verify specs with measurements.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    It is necessary to point out that these panels at $0.78 per Watt are not Grade 'A', are not "regular price" nor "always available" nor "in any quantity". There will always be deals such as seconds, clearance of discontinued models, bulk order purchases, or bankruptcy sales. Do not mistake such for standard panel prices. Nor should you expect panels prices to go ever downwards. That is not sound economic thinking. Regular panel prices are much lower now than they've ever been before (less than $2.00 per Watt). Even so the factors that make them so inexpensive are variable, and the general trend on the price of everything tends to be up. If you wait forever for the lowest price you may never buy anything.

    Plan your system. Work out the economics of it now. If it's viable, go for it. If it isn't, don't. The only economics that matter are how costs fit with your budget at the time you're thinking of buying. It makes no sense to buy a lot of panels and have them sitting around for years (possibly getting damaged) while you wait to buy the rest of it, nor to wait until prices are at their absolute lowest because you will never know when that is.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    While I agree with all your planning statements, these panels were about 1/2 grade 'A' new panels and 1/2 Blemished or 'B' panels and while not a Normal price or always available there were more than 100 containers, 7Mega watts of panels more than most sellers sell in a year, I hope you agree that represents quantity.

    Lots of political things going on in solar;

    These panels became available largely due to Germany and Spains reduced trarifs

    China subsidizing solar

    And US perhaps Taxing Solar imports...

    I think, my opinion is that we are approaching the material costs of panels, and the US dollar has lots of inflationary pressures, I think we might well be hitting the low end of solar panel costs. I suspect we could see another break in costs if/when the US ends it's 30% tax credit in 2016(?) only time will tell, it will be interesting.

    Mods I hope this doesn't breach the ban on political posts. edit as you wish.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.