CC for 4000w array

jtdiesel65
jtdiesel65 Solar Expert Posts: 242 ✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Is there a charge controller that can handle 24x170w=4080w array? I'm upgrading two 8x170w=1360 arrays to two 12x170w=2040w arrays. I currently have an mx60 and a fm60. It appears the new arrays will be too big for the 60a controllers. Is there a single controller that can handle the entire 4080w array?

These are currently wired in strings of two. So voc 43.80x2=87.6. I up in the cold with temps that can reach -20 or even bit lower. Will either the FM80 or classic let me wire in strings of 3? 43.8*3=131.4, but there is also the temp to consider.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: CC for 4000w array

    Missing information: system Voltage?

    But basically, there is no single charge controller that will adequately handle that much Wattage:
    4080 Watts / 48 Volts = 85 Amps. With typical panel derating it might sneak in under the wire at 65 Amps.

    What's more, the cold temps will increase the Voc by a factor of 1.3. So each panel has a potential Voc of 43.8 * 1.3 = 56.94. Two in series could reach 113.88, three in series 170.82. That would exceed the input max of all but the Midnite Solar Classic controllers. They can handle the cold Voc, but still possibly not the current.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: CC for 4000w array

    Doesn't Outback have an 80a controller (FM80) ? or are they playing with numbers?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: CC for 4000w array

    jt,

    Assuming that the battery voltage must be 48 V, and that the 170 watt modules have a Vmp of about 35 volts, you can run two modules per string, and still EQ a 48 volt battery with warm/hot PV. Strings of three is pushing the OB CCs with your low temps.

    In theory, the Midnite Classic 150 would work with strings of three, but on cold winter days, you might avoid quite a bit of PV power due to the Classic being in Hyper VOC.

    Having looked at trying to run a fairly large array into a single CC, here, IMHO it seems more prudent to run half of the array into its own CC. If the CCs are OB MX and FMs, then strings of two seems to be the best.

    A single Classic 150 might just do the job on most occasions, but it would be running at/near its MAX power for many hours of many days, and this is prob asking for trouble. Furthermore, having redundancy -- two CCs each running at about half max capability seems to be a good strategy.

    YMMV, Good Luck, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • Dapdan
    Dapdan Solar Expert Posts: 330 ✭✭
    #5
    Re: CC for 4000w array

    Hi All,

    I have a different take on this. I currently have two systems, both running identical panels, controller and system voltage. They have slightly different batterie banks one at 820SAh and the other at 1040Ah. I have both setup at 3X6 strings using low voltage panels. One client uses more energy so I am planning on adding another 3 panels thus making one 3X7 array into a single classic 150. So both are now 3510w and one will become 4095w. I have monitored both CC closely over the past 3-5 months and none have ever had an output from the CC greater than 65 amps. Further more I don't expect the 4095w array will ever exceed 85Amp from the classic 150CC. These system are installed in the tropics so it is not directly comparable to the OP set up but I don't think he is going to exceed a Classic 150 max rating of 88Amps at 48v. I am no expert in these matters but if his current system is set up with one classic 150 when he is near to midday and he is harvesting max power he should also be at maximum voltage. So assuming it is a 48v system he should be between 57v and 58v. So doing the basic math 4080/57 would give us 71Amps which is well withing the 88Amp limits and give head room as it relates to higher performance of the panels as it get colder. Let say he has a 10% improvement in cold weather performance he will still be below the 88Amps.

    This is my humble opinion but I let the experts dissect my proposal and learn at their feet.

    Cheers...
    Damani
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: CC for 4000w array

    damani,
    i think that max on the 150 is 83a for a nominal 48v output voltage.

    i concur that 1 controller will not suffice.
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: CC for 4000w array

    If the weather is hot, the rating will be quite a bit below the label rating of the array and might only be around, say, 3400 Watts or so (85% of rating).

    Hey, 85% of rating at 25 degree C ambient would be good !

    BTW, looking at the power chart for the 150, it's 86 amps for 48V battery at a high (70V) 48V array voltage at 25C ambient. Higher temperatures on the array, which will happen at 25 degree C ambient will give even lower V MPP and lower power than 85% is my guess.

    There will be those rare times that you may get closer to 100% of the rating, but I would be very surprised if it was very often. Cool breeze, edge of cloude, etc.

    boB
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  • jtdiesel65
    jtdiesel65 Solar Expert Posts: 242 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: CC for 4000w array

    thanks

    I'm at 24 v. I think I do see Voc that is 1.3xrating. The HighWatts on the mx60 has been slightly over 1800w on a 1360w rated array. For output on the mx60, it's not uncommon to see ~45a. So it sounds like there is no way out of needed 2.
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: CC for 4000w array
    jtdiesel65 wrote: »
    thanks

    I'm at 24 v. I think I do see Voc that is 1.3xrating. The HighWatts on the mx60 has been slightly over 1800w on a 1360w rated array. For output on the mx60, it's not uncommon to see ~45a. So it sounds like there is no way out of needed 2.


    Oh. 24 Volt battery ? Yes, you will need at least 2 controllers then.

    boB
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: CC for 4000w array

    So I'm putting this out there to learn something, mostly as a friend is considering using one for an off grid install...

    It appears that Xantrex XW series hybrid systems might work abit with a hish cost but including an inverter?

    Or perhaps I'm nuts, not something I'm considering, but perhaps I'll learn how these monster all-in-one gizmo's work.

    Thanks ahead of time, just small caliber bullets when you shoot me down, I normally have good info to post, but I'm more curious than anything, he showed me specs that would infer they could handle close to 4Kw array at 24 volts, something ugly like 150 amps @ 24 volts (from my often feeble memory)
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: CC for 4000w array
    Photowhit wrote: »
    So I'm putting this out there to learn something, mostly as a friend is considering using one for an off grid install...
    It appears that Xantrex XW series hybrid systems might work abit with a hish cost but including an inverter?.....

    The XW series inverter/chargers, do not include a solar charge controller. That's an extra. There are matching XW MPPT 60A controllers (I used a Morningstar MPPT)
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: CC for 4000w array

    "I see, said the blind man..."

    That makes a lot more sense, I'll pass it along.

    Thanks!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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