The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee

oil pan 4
oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
I keep hearing that most of the grid tied solar power systems people have installed are warrentied or guaranteed for 20 to 25 years.

Does any one know what the fine print on this reads like?
Typically:
If a part fails do you get full replacement cost or do you get prorated?
Is lightening, wind or downed tree damage covered?
Is the labor of the old part removal and new part install covered?

Who has had to make a claim after 5 or 10 years and if so what was it for and what happened?

Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee

    Different parts have different times, and vendors for the claim.

    Maybe the installer will cover it all?

    PV is 20 - 25 years

    Electronics is 5-10 years. (micro-inverter 25 years, still un-tested)

    Wire, breakers, boxes are 0.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #3
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee

    I can tell you what happened to me... After about 6 years, my solar array failed and there was a safety upgrade for some filter capacitors on my GT inverter.
    • Inverter had a 5 year warranty (at the time). Vendor and installer installed brand new production inverter no charge.
    • Solar Panel Vendor provided new panels ~4 months after old panels where taken down. Installer charged me $500 for panel change out and Mfg. paid some funds to installer too (~$500+ or so? Don't know). Installer had a 5 year workmanship warranty--If failed sooner, would have not needed to pay $500 charge. Panels failed (apparently) due to poor junction box design (looked like they overheated on many panels--but could have been another issue too--don't know).
    • New inverter failed after about 4 months (output failure shorted branch circuit breaker), distributor supplied new/old product as replacement (a few weeks--Actual new/new product was back-ordered at time for 1-3 months). (assuming new replacement inverter only has 1 year warranty--but not sure).
    I purchased through Home Depot solar program--It is possible that having them is providing me with better "support" than if I did not.

    Probably paid ~8% more for "Home Depot" privileged--Picked them as I was not positive that solar vendors/installer would be around in 10-20 years and figured they will have a bit more leverage than me alone.

    Your mileage may vary.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee

    another example was when kyocera had major problems with their kc120s. initially, they replaced the defective pvs with an upgraded new pv, but later they gave refurbished kc120s to replace the defective ones with and they are probably still replacing some of these defective pvs to this day.

    i would imagine it to be difficult to forecast how a company may handle a warranty claim, especially 20-25yrs down the road as policies change and usually for the worse for the consumer and could vary from company to company too.:grr that also would be my thoughts for if the company would still be in business by that time.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee

    Kyocera truely set a high bar and gained some loyal customers!

    Other than a "SunGod" on another forum, who claimed a 50% failure rate on BP panels (I don't trust this information) Solar panels have in, my experience, been very reliable.

    I believe John Kimball of a company who sells lots of panels has only had a handfull of failed panels in their years of doing business (I think he was talking ablout Evergreen panels at the time)
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #6
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee

    I would not disagree that some model of BP's had such a high failure rate... I would guess that over 50% of my panels had visible signs of failure (browning under the glass over the junction box).

    My new set of panels appeared to be somewhat heavier glass and were made in China (I think that model line has now been shut down in China too).

    Hopefully....

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • TnAndy
    TnAndy Solar Expert Posts: 249 ✭✭
    #7
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee

    Only equipment problem I've had was a blown Outback inverter, out of warranty. I suspect it was a lightning hit ( I didn't have Delta arrestors installed then, now I have them all over the system ). I told Outback customer service what I suspected happened, and was told "Shush up....we don't like that word 'lightning'...". They sent me a complete rebuild kit for the inverter, along with a "rebuilding inverters for dummies" manual, which walked me right thru the process. All I paid was the return shipping on the fried parts.

    I felt good about Outback before that, but now, I won't even look at somebody else's gear.
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  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee

    Thanks for that info. I wasn't too worried about the panels, they have a pretty good record.

    Popular belief seems to be that everything is covered for 20 to 25 years and maintenance costs are $0 for 2 decades plus. To me that sounds over all unrealistic and too good to be true.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #9
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee

    I would plan on replacing the Inverter/Charge Controller/other electronics about every 10 years... (and a possible repair after 5 years).

    Generally the issue is spare parts, after about 10 years, become very difficult to find and manufactures tend to drop support. So even if the device is repairable--You might not be able to repair it.

    The wonder of modern electronics--Cheaper, faster, better--But a throw away society....

    Your system may easily last 10+ years--But I would have cash in the bank ready just in case.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee
    BB. wrote: »
    I would plan on replacing the Inverter/Charge Controller/other electronics about every 10 years... (and a possible repair after 5 years).

    Generally the issue is spare parts, after about 10 years, become very difficult to find and manufactures tend to drop support. So even if the device is repairable--You might not be able to repair it.
    -Bill

    I agree, I plan on keeping a spare inverter and rebuild kits on hand.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee
    oil pan 4 wrote: »
    I agree, I plan on keeping a spare inverter and rebuild kits on hand.

    After a long thread here, I think the conclusion was cash on hand was better than spares and the electronics age weather or not they were used. (I have a lot of spares, so I remember)
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Volvo Farmer
    Volvo Farmer Solar Expert Posts: 209 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee
    BB. wrote: »
    Generally the issue is spare parts, after about 10 years, become very difficult to find and manufactures tend to drop support. So even if the device is repairable--You might not be able to repair it.

    10 years? try three. I have been going back and forth with Outback trying to get a new button board for my MX60. They tell me it is obsolete and that since the FM60 is a new, superior product, they don't have to stock parts for the MX60 anymore. My MX60 was made in 2004 but they made them until 2008.

    Here's the real kicker. I have an email from an Outback rep that says they will no longer send out parts for charge controllers for field repair and that this has been a policy for the last 2 years.

    WTF? Back in '06 when I needed a firmware update, they sent me the board and a nice set of instructions. I was not down more than three hours. When the fan went noisy in the first year, they graciously sent me a new fan and instructions. Now I can't get parts at all and have to ship the thing back to them and wait days for them to fix it?

    Something drastic has changed at Outback in the last few years. This is not the same company I bought my stuff from in 2004.
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  • mikeo
    mikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee
    10 years? try three.
    I have the same experience with Xantrex. I installed my new SW4024 in 2006 and within 3 years it was considered obsolete after the XW series finally hit the market with service parts hard to find. Fortunately the unit still works flawlessly but still there is no guarantee of replacement parts after the company warranty runs out. True the company has changed hands a couple of times.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #14
    Re: The 25 year solar warrenty or guarantee

    The dirty little secret in electronics...

    The ten years starts from when the product is first designed.

    And for much of the electronics industry (non-consumer mass market stuff), the reason they stopped making the old model is they could no longer cost effectively source the parts. So older designs frequently are already difficult to get replacement parts by the time production has ended.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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