Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Sounds like you are all over that setup Rich! The Mitsu's seem to state some reclaimation of wasted heat to do this defrosting. I dunno.

I see some outdoor units of various brands can be fitted with a base heater. Kind of a gorilla meets butterfly approach I guess but semi effective until the poco bill comes in.

In 10 years, with much debate, I suspect we may be swapping transformers for reactors on the pole tops...heh. Great system specs on that Cheeky Kai Zen system nonetheless. I see it has a smaller sibling that has specs similar (almost identical) to the H2i Mitsu's. Think it's the Squeaky Kai Zen or sumthin'....

This reminds me, I need tol get to the basement to change out the defrost sensor in my HPWH...later

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

techntrek wrote: »

Going by Wiki a SEER of 26 would be rougly an EER of 15. So how is EER = 5 good?

I think that rating should have been listed as a COP of 5.

A COP (The Coefficient of Performance) of 5 is pretty dang good..

"COP may also be used for domestic heating. An electric heater has a COP of 1.
Each watt of power consumed produces 1 Watt of heat. Conventional heat pumps
have COPs of 2 - 5, delivering 2 to 5 times the energy they consume."


The rating for my old Sanyo units are:
♦ SEER: 17
♦ EER: 10.3
♦ COP: 3.41
♦ HSPF: 8.5

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

SteveK wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a good cheap way to monitor my splits so some useful data on efficiencies can be measured? A test routine, plan or proceedure?

The TED units can collect power use data. Just hook the probes over the 240v pair, in the panel.

But, I've had problems with my TED display. It can't hear too good if you are using any light dimmers or CFL in your house.. :grr


I'm really getting interested in what can be done with the little CAI board.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/appliances-gadgets/1871-webcontrol-universal-industrial-controller.html#post17352

I think there is a good possibility of being able to collect
1. power use data (with $9 current probes)
2. outdoor weather data (temperature & humidity)
3. indoor temperature
4. temperature of the R410A going in and coming out of my two outdoor units. (4 more heat sensors)


That seems like enough raw information to for me to easily see if one system is working better than the other.
Once enough data was collected to form a benchmark (of heating & cooling performance),
then spotting problems (like slow R410A leaks) later on, should be easy..



I'm waiting for the DS18B20 temperature sensors to show up from China..
I hope to obtain a few of the current sensors locally soon.

If I can get the hardware working, the PLC coding shouldn't be too hard.
The worst case program would have the board sending me an email
every 20-30 minutes with all the measurement data. (Email data logging?)

Then, all I would need is an Email mining program!
And, it would not require leaving a PC running over night.
(Which would be nice to avoid).

Maybe I need some kind of logging program in the 'cloud', to mine the CAI status page 24-7..?. :roll:

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

"Or, maybe just call it pudding and believe the published specs.."??

That's proof that you're not a real nerd..

I'm not really interested if these things meet some spec in a manual,
I know that I'm never going to be able to duplicate their test setup..
And I'll never know if I made a good deal or not. (spec wise).

My goal in measuring performance, is to know when things are working right..
The SG2 in my car tells me my MPG as I drive. I know the car is working right, (for me)
and I'm not being a lead-foot..

I tend to enjoy life more when I'm not wasting excess mola..
And, enjoying life is what it's all about.. 8)

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

H2i's are in and are wonderful things. Very impressed with the installation. The guys did a great job with still some details to finish up in the morning. These things really throw the heat. The iSee sensor is pretty neat, sweeping back and forth. I hope there isn't a camera in there...

The installation is like a brick outhouse. No chance of anyone walking away with these to easily. They are insanely quiet. I'm psyched.

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Techntrek, I feel a bit sedistic wishing for some abnormally cold weather for test purposes. Does that make me a bad person?...muwahahaha

Seriously though, I'll keep in touch here on this thread if any problems arise. Something tells me you will have an easy peazy time installing these yourself. The brackets they used are not the one's commomly found at most of the online websites and were not Mitsubishi branded either though they are the same color.

I will add that the pressure test with 300psi nitrogen revealed some very minute leaks in the lines while watching them every step of the way. They needed to retweak 4 out of eight of them for some seriously small leaks at the fittings. This is something I feel I may have missed.

Just sayin'

Good luck and hope to read of your conquest sooner than later!..8)

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

SteveK wrote: »

I will add that the pressure test with 300psi nitrogen revealed some very minute leaks in the lines while watching them every step of the way. They needed to retweak 4 out of eight of them for some seriously small leaks at the fittings. This is something I feel I may have missed.

That seems a little odd.. Even 60% tight, I've never seen a flare leak..(Maybe just lucky).
Were they using torque wrenches? Are just using experience torque?


Anyways, I don't know if temperature cycling up and down really effects the fittings,
but it might if any are on the loose side.

On my Sanyo#2, I ran it for a week with adding more insulation, so I could go out
and re-tweak the four couplings. Only the ODU 1/4" line got 1/20 of a turn tighter.
BUT, I did find one thing. The service connection cap was only finger tight!!

If your outdoor flare connections are exposed, you might want to re-check them
with liquid soap in about a week. You might just save a service call on New Years Eve..

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

The factory flares I've seen are works of art, when compared to mine.
I put all of them (factory and my DIY) under a close inspection using 10x mag.
The inside of the factory flares look like they were carefully polished.
I did a bunch before I started liking them..

A big part of getting a good flare, is a good machine, but the operator has a lot to do with it too.
It's the kind of task you really have to pay attention to..
It's good they came back and re-checked the fittings.

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

icarus wrote: »

Question for mini=split users. How well do they work in heat mode, with OATs ~20F.

We are wondering for a house in Maine, currently heated with oil. I am wondering if a mini-split system can be more efficient, perhaps suplimented with a gas fireplace might make some sense.

Tony

When it gets really cold around here (12 deg F and under), the Sanyo units
aren't that great. So, aux heat will sometimes be needed.
Most of the time when we get those low temps in the Boston area,
I'm all snug in bed and not worried about much..

The colder it gets, the more the efficiency falls off..
But, they will still produce some heat down in the single digits..




I have two units now, so I might be able to skip the back-up of burning oil for space heating this year..

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/geothermal/1815-2-sanyo-24khs72-ac-hp-install-project-oct-2011-a.html

Cheers,
Rich

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Tony, I intend to check-in here when those temps are around. I have the H2i's installed now. Tonight will be the coldest night so far at a balmy 25F with no real lower temps in sight.

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Yes I too was concerned. Specs have a way of becoming sales pitches. Since AHRI does not rate the splits down low I needed to call an app engineer at MITSU to feel comfortable.

Techntrek the second set of data you listed where it speaks of rated capacity is actually the units capacity at the HSPF factor (and I was told the COP spec). So the FE09 is a COP 4.28 at 17F at 6700 BTU....confusing, no?

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

techntrek wrote: »

Ah, as clear as a frosted-over condenser coil. :-)

LOL!...yeah so that's why we installed a 12k unit in a space that really only required 8.5K. This so the units will perform within this efficiency zone....and we can make ice cubes on the countertops in the summer...;)

Or maybe a better way to put it would've been when there is a 6700 BTU load and the outdoor temperature is 17F the FE09 will run at or about it's rated efficiency...sheesh, english ain't my best talent....heh

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

techntrek wrote: »

Yeah, I was considering the same thing, using the 12 instead of the 09 in my coldest room even though the 9 would do fine most of the time. I'll want that extra little bit on those 3-5 days a year we get down to 0 F, and the 1-2 days every few years that we drop to -10. Probably will use the 09 in all the other rooms.

Maybe the literature should just say:

Make cold. Make heat. Blow air around.

Our "coldest room" has been tweaked a little now.. It's 100 sq ft of glass was the main problem.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conservation/1786-indoor-window-thermal-barrier-indoor-storms.html
And now, it's a lot easier to heat..

If it only gets down to 0 deg F, one or two days, every few years,
maybe just having a backup of 1 or 2 ($15) 1,200w space heaters would work for that room?
When it gets really cold in there, dig them up and PnP..

But, if it doesn't cost a lot more, and the specs are just as good.
A larger mini-split isn't going to be a problem. It will just run at lower power. (and might last a few years longer).
There might be a size difference of the IDU, your wife might not like..

The 24k IDU in our den does look a bit on the large size..

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

It got pretty chilly here last night.. Down to about 11F. Since midnight, the average has been 13.6 °F. http://pauland.net/archive.php
But, now that we are heating the den (with Sanyo#2), staying at 20C all night cost us $3.18 (9 hours : 14.8kWh)
$3.18 wouldn't buy one gallon of oil. I think the units are both using about 850watts each on average, when it's this cold.

It sure was nice to wake up to a nice warm house this morning!
Knowing that we didn't burn 4 gallons of oil ($3.89/gal) last night, priceless!


Edit: Dec 20, 2011
Weather was much nicer last night.. Around 40F on ave.. http://pauland.net/archive.php
We've used 5 kwh during the midnight to 8AM span.. That's 2/3 down from 14.8 kwh..

Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

Well I wish I had more hard data on mine like Rich has. I do intend to measure soon. Maybe Santa will bring me what I asked for.

We have inherited a 111 year old home recently that we are gutting. No solar, wind or micro hydro prospects there. Needs everything including insulation, windows/doors and heating system. We intend to let it for several years till the market turns....if it turns.....then sell.

We are installing 2 of these H2i's downstairs there with a multi-zone Mitsubishi in the three bedrooms upstairs. Since we are gutting it all plumbing will be run in the walls. All the outdoor units can be side by side and off the ground 3' or so. Should be pretty tidy and will increase the property value if done right.

Kind of nice starting with a clean slate and not needing to survive through the renovation process like we did here in our home. That with us doing most of the work ourselves.