Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

mtngr1
mtngr1 Registered Users Posts: 11
Im looking for a portable solar solution, strictly for a Severe Emergency backup, and pretty much ready for plug and play. I've been researching it for quite a while and the markup seems to be pretty steep. I know companies need to make money and since the work and figuring is already done, I get that, but the pricing seems to border on ridiculous. I already have 70 watts of 2 foldable solar panels for my Ham Radio, and, lithium batteries that I use for my IPad, and IPhone. I have a portable Duracell 600 watt battery pack that I carry in my car, and I have a 12 volt charger for my D's, AAA's, and AA's, that can connect to my solar panel or 600 watt battery pack. Now I have plenty of rechargeable D's for my Lanterns, four in total. I have a small propane stove for cooking, and an ultralite back packing stove. Now all I need taken care of Is a solar battery pack that can charge a battery pack for a 3.5-4.0 cu compact 24 hrs(maybe less if I'm just keeping it cold, then charging the battery bank) and a 600 watt microwave(if needed), plus charge the 600 watt battery pack. Now, I've considered a Honda Generator 2000 but in an severe emergency, don't want to worry about, where am I going to get gas and I don't want to attract the wrong attention as being the one who has the lights, food etc.
I'm open to constructive criticism, and everyone's expertise as I'm new to Solar.

TIA,
mtngr1
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Comments

  • mtngr1
    mtngr1 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    It got deleted some how, but I meant small compact Frig-, 2.8-4.0 cu inches.

    TIA
    mtngr1
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    It is actually a pretty tough to make a generic answer for your question... And it is a very common question.

    So--Basically, off-grid solar power is expensive. On the order of $1-$2+ per kWH if used ~9-12 months a year. Or ~10x the cost of grid power.

    If the power is only used for emergency backup, then the cost of power goes up even more (you only use the solar panels when the grid is down). Some people will run their office (example) from solar to at least recover some costs (which does cycle the battery bank which reduces battery life--driving costs up some).

    So, because off-grid solar power is so expensive, it becomes important to decide how much power you really need and what your personal needs are (from just enough power for a couple lights and a radio--To living a fairly standard life similar to how you would live on-grid. And do you have special needs (A/C for hot weather, refrigeration for medications, etc.).

    A good place to start is to measure you power of existing appliances you think you want to run when off grid. A Kill-a-Watt meter (or equivalent) is a good place to start.

    And, you will find that if you don't use refrigeration/well pumping, you really do not need a very large system.

    If you want live a "comfortable" electronic life (lights, pressurized water, radio, laptop computer, perhaps a clothes washing machine, efficient refrigerator)--Perhaps you will need ~3.3 kWH per day or ~100 kWH per month.

    If you want to live like most people live on-grid, you probably are looking at 300-1,000 kWH per month. With A/C, 1,000-2,000+ kWH.

    So--conservation is your #1 goal/starting point here. Insulation, very efficient appliances, turning off unused equipment, etc...

    How long do you want the power (hours, days, weeks, months, "forever", etc.).

    Do you need portable power and what is your likely power failure you are protecting against (a solar array plus a few thousand pounds of batteries attached to a collapsed home in earthquake country, a flooded home, mudslide, or a burned out hulk in wild fire country is not very useful).

    Also, do you have "good sun" (trees, buildings, weather). And are your failures random in time (earthquakes) or during poor weather (hurricanes, ice storms, etc.).

    For a couple weeks of emergency power, a generator is tough to beat (cheap, portable, share fuel for cooking/transportation, etc.).

    An off-grid power system is expensive because batteries need to be replaced every 5-10 years or so, and the electronics (charge controllers, inverters, etc.) also may need to be replaced every 10+ years too.

    There are hybrid solar power systems that use the utility power and operate in "Grid Tied" mode (sell power to the utility) when everything is good. And will operate without utility power (and support backup genset connections) when the grid is down... For a home, this can be a nice solution... It can reduce your cost of electric power to ~$0.45 or so per kWH (Pure Grid Tied without batteries is the cheapest--but no emergency power available).

    To give you an idea of designing and building a small (100-200 watt solar panel + battery + inverter) backup power system, take a look here.

    Emergency Power (stand alone/portable system)
    nice thread with video (RV travel trailer--similar to emergency power system)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution
    BB. wrote: »
    For a couple weeks of emergency power, a generator is tough to beat (cheap, portable, share fuel for cooking/transportation, etc.).

    I disagree. Generators are relatively cheap to buy but anywhere from somewhat expensive to very expensive to run during long outages. This can be moderated by running them near full capacity whenever they are running (more kw per gallon near full capacity), and by running them several times a day to keep a fridge cool instead of all day long (thermal carryover will keep it cool between runs). Both of those reasons are why I added battery backup after getting my generator.

    Generator companies love to sell the benefits but never talk about the operating costs...
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    I will agree once agin with Bill. The issue with a battery bsed off grid system in the on going price of the batteries. ~$500 worth of T105 s wil give you ~ 2.5 kwh of power, drawn to 50%. $600 worth of Honda Eu1000 (and a litre of fuel) will deliver maybe 5 kwh.

    The eu will last hundreds, if not thousands of hours requiring only occasional oil changes and fresh fuel. The batteries, if properly float charged and stored, might last 5-10 years, if used occasionally for shoe outages. That same ~450 ah of battery will need between 4-800 watts of solar to charge, at a cost of ~$3/ watt. Also consider, if you scale down, your price tends to go up per watt net/net.

    The equation might change if you have regular, and prolonged outages, but unless your grid is very unreliable, it will nearly always be cheaper, and more reliable to rely on a genny instead.

    IMHO, spend the money on the PV, grid tie it, and buy a small genny for essential loads.

    Tony
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    As always it comes down to how much power you need for how long.
    For temporary outages or camping trips solar isn't very practical.
    The longer the outage, the more valuable batteries become (recharged from the gen).
    Longer off-grid power use and the solar panels will be more practical than keeping a generator going for days on end.

    The trouble is, how do you predict the length of a power outage? If you live somewhere that has frequent failures you may have a history to base your decision on. Otherwise you're playing a guessing game. You can choose how long you could stand to do without and plan accordingly.

    And if you need the big kW hours for a short time the generator will be significantly cheaper.
    Solar is very expensive for short-term, occasional power production.
    techntrek's gen-charged battery-powered inverter is a good compromise between the two, and one I've often recommended (including as an interim measure until panels can be purchased).
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    I'll have to agree with the three Mods posting on this thread.

    Specifically, the Inverter-Generators are not very expensive to run, even for an extended power outage, especially if one does not need/want A/C, or to cook/heat with generator power.

    A ready source of fuel, in most situations can be taken from one's auto. In Earthquake Country, we try to drive on the top-half of our fuel tanks, leaving a substantial amount available for generator/gas stove use in an emergency.

    My 'lil Honda EU-1000isa generator will run everything that I need ... refer, TV, some lights, radio -- AM/FM and Hammie radio etc, and do it very economically. It weighs about 31 pounds or less, wet, and is very quiet and compact. Magic ... and it has a built-in handle. It may not have the "I'm cool and green factor", but it is inexpensive, portable and can work magic in a power outage and for camping.

    Plus, I will note that each of the three Mods posting in this thread each seem to have at least one of these inverter-gensets (all Hondas, altho Yamaha also makes good ones). YMMV and so on, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • mtngr1
    mtngr1 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    Too be honest, I'm not trying to recoup my cost, because In a small or severe emergency, I won't care how much money I spent, I will just be glad that I have a back up. I look it like this: we have medical and car insurance to cover us in case of an emergency. I can spend years and years(I have) and never have an accident or never go to the Emergency, but the day I need it, it's there. I've never looked at recouping all the years that Ive spent on my car insurance or medical insurance, just glad it's there incase I need it. So at $3.69 a gallon in California, to run a small compact Frig and a 600 watt microwave once in a while, and charge a 600 watt battery pack, nothing else. How many gals of gas would I need, say to run for 2 weeks? Those that have a Honda 2000, for an emergency, how many gals of gas do u keep on hand for your generator?

    TIA,
    Mtngr1
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    A eu2000i running at full load runs about 4 hours on 1.1 gallons of fuel (~1,600 watts).

    At 400 watts (1/4 power), it should run nearly 10 hours. The average fridge/freezer (not in defrost cycle) probably runs around 120 to 150 watts. So, that is enough to keep a couple of them running plus a few lights and a radio/computer/small TV.

    I figure 20 gallons of gasoline (with fuel stabilizer and recycle in the the vehicles once a year) will last me at least 10 days. A siphon hose will get me another 5-10 days from our car/pickup (try to keep tanks > 1/2 full), if I do not plan on driving out.

    The large whole house gensets with automatic start and transfer switches a great--but a 10-20 kW unit will burn a 1/2 gallon to 1 gallon of gas per hour--even with a 1 watt load.

    Even those 3.5 to 5 kW gensets really drink the fuel with light loads (which are probably mostly what you are going to have). Getting fuel (service stations without power, roads that propane trucks cannot cross) in a wide emergency is going to be difficult too.

    If you can figure out how to run your home in an emergency with a small, fuel efficient generator, it makes it much easier to have a useful amount of fuel for in storage without going to a 400 gallon propane or diesel tank, etc...

    Natural gas is also an interesting option--but for our area--a big earthquake make shutdown the gas lines (although, it has not been a problem so far).

    You can always have on of the larger gensets to power tools, emergency pumps, etc... Just don't plan on running them much more than an hour or two a day (without a large backup fuel supply).

    After 10 days to two weeks, the fridge and freezer will probably be empty and either we will be able to resupply--or we may have to evacuate anyway.

    More or less--I look at it like camping (an emergency). Water, Food (dry, canned, etc.), fuel for cooking, hygiene type stuff, etc... But I am in a major metropolitan area. What a person can/should do outside of the big cities may be different (and less subject to city code enforcement).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    sometimes it's not enough to have one thing as your insurance. i won't argue the point of the generator, but for the cost of it and the fuel this can buy a few pvs, controller, and batteries, but the inverter would top the costs over a generator. in terms of kilowatt hours you may not get as much from the solar setup as with the generator in a given day, but solar is quiet in its operations making it good for night use. to run either 24/7 is expensive, but as you said, when the power is out you aren't concerning yourself with what the backup cost you.

    do know that a microwave oven and a frig can have huge power surges/consumptions. the frig needs big power to start and defrost even for the small ones as many have shown themselves to be not much better than a bigger energy efficient counterpart. the microwave will draw upwards of around 1000 to 1500w depending on the microwave oven, but will do so for small time periods as they cook foods fairly quick. this dictates the inverter to handle at least that much and if frig starts or goes to defrost when you are microwaving then you'll need an even bigger inverter, sine wave type preferred. the batteries also will need to be sized for this huge power surge and you probably would need for a minimum 200ah of capacity for the power surges, but you don't drain batteries beyond 50% to keep their life making 100ah at 12v available or 1.2kwh. you won't do much for long with that so that means upping the battery capacity to suit the power you'd use over the course of the day without draining beyond 50%.

    the pvs would be dictated by the use of power over the day and the size of the battery bank and generally we recommend a charge rate of 5%-13% to the batteries. keep in mind pvs at stc ratings, plus losses and inefficiencies, will up the wattage of the pvs needed over theoretical calculations. also keeping in mind the power is dependent on the sun and that is dictated by weather, location, and time of the day/year.

    this sounds vague, but it is doable to some degree and you dictate that degree. portable it will not be and i don't recommend that it be portable for your home as that makes those pvs ideal theft targets during a critical timeperiod and there will be 2 or most likely more of large capacity pvs to power this.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    One also might note, tht a " compact " fridge will likely draw ~1 kwh of power per day on average. Add in your other likely loads and they might near 2 kwh/day.

    Using myrtle of thumb calculation, 1 kw of pv would yield, 1000/2=500*4=2000. WH of power per day, on averge over the course of the year. That 1 kw system, from soup to nuts might cost $5000 or so.


    Insurance is a good I dea, but when the premium exceeds its value, one has to question if there are alternatives.

    Tony
  • SteveK
    SteveK Solar Expert Posts: 387 ✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    I started doing the same as you for the very same reason too. I started with a battery bank to support my loads, a generator (cheapo I had) and a regular old automotive charger (cheapo I had) and a MSW inverter (cheapo I had).

    After funds became more available (and proof of concept) I added a set of good quality PV's to support the battery bank and a better TSW inverter and a really good but somewhat low cost charge controller.

    Then I purchased a quality battery charger and a quality generator of sufficient size to support the battery bank and for somewhat larger loads intermittetly. Finally a sexy charge controller that would do well on wind and hydro someday in another location. That and a small quality inverter for 24/7 use (more efficient).

    I know it is not recommended to start small and add to the system piece meal like I did but it works for some on a limited budget and I've not been without power since day one. This system supplies me some power year round with emphasis on critical essentials like heat (a coal stoker), lights, 9cu/ft chest freezer and ham radio equipment without use of the generator.

    It has been a blessing this week with the long and then more intermittent power outage we needed to mitigate. The generator only ran briefly for hot water (heat pump water heater) while simultaneously making coffee and eats on an induction cooktop. And a couple loads of laundry (dried over the coal stoker).

    All in around $7k installed by me.

    But hardly portable......
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution
    BB. wrote: »
    The large whole house gensets with automatic start and transfer switches a great--but a 10-20 kW unit will burn a 1/2 gallon to 1 gallon of gas per hour--even with a 1 watt load.

    Think bigger. A 12 kw LPG genset will burn 1 1/2 gallons per hour at 50% load (and nearly that much at zero load), 2 gallons at 100%. A 20 kw genset will burn 2 1/2 gallons at 50%.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    OP you did say that you wanted a portable solar solution and that is just not doable without an enclosed trailer dedicated for that purpose. I have a small 1200w system and it is in no way portable. When it gets to 3600w it would be impossible.

    All the posts in this thread are excellent. Any combination of them should serve you well.

    It seems like you are wanting a SHTF backup power source. Solar is the quietest of the options, but also the most expensive. The EU series can be placed in a insulated structure(of its own) to further reduce the noise signature.

    You say you don't want to be the guy with the lights still on, and that gets into light disipline as well as noise disipline with a genny.

    Keep in mind that if you watch the startup loading and you make sure no two things are starting at the same time, your surge loads can be controlled. That enables you to run from a smaller genny.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    As a rule, solar power will need a back-up charge source because the sun doesn't shine all the time. Especially if power is out due to bad weather. Start with a generator, because it's the cheapest Watt hours for the money and you're going to need one anyway.
  • mtngr1
    mtngr1 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    Im not talking portable like leave the panels out there, Im talking portable like maybe that setup from Nothern Tools or Sol-Man.

    Thanks,
    mtngr1
  • mtngr1
    mtngr1 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    I want to roll the panels to charge the battery bank then put them back in the garage. I live in the central valley of Ca., do we get plenty of sunlight almost all year.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    It can be an issue making a roll-out solar array.

    Solar panels are (typically) single weight tempered glass and very susceptible to being shattered by rough handling and scratches--And shattered panels are unrepairable and virtually useless (long term).

    If you do make a portable solar array--Ensure that it is well anchored and that wind gusts will not knock the panels over.

    Also, you will need an AC battery charger to keep the battery bank properly charged. Letting batteries set for weeks/months can kill them (length of storage without charging depends on battery type and storage temperatures).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mtngr1
    mtngr1 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    Well, I dont have time to make one, so can this forum recommend one pre made? I use a Battery Tender for my Lifepo Battery with BMS and I also have a Battery Minder so Im assuming I would use one equal to my Battery bank batteries

    Thanks
  • mtngr1
    mtngr1 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    Seven, thats exactly what Im doing, is preparing for a SHTF scenario. I was caught unprepared and off guard in that big power grid blackout back in 96(I think),that took out most of the Western States, for an entire Day, and I felt so helpless and swore that I would never be caught unprepared ever again. Plus, there have been a lot of big Earthquakes lately(Japan, New Zealand, Turkey, Peru), and Ca hadn't had a big one in a long time. Preparing for the Worst and hoping for the best! For now, I will concentrate on getting the Honda 2000, a battery charger, and a few good solid Deep Cell batteries. Can I get some recommendations on some good solid batteries, and an appropriate Battery charger? I was thinking of getting something like the Xantrex Power Hub to encase the batteries.
    What is the consensus on this Xantrex- http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PH1800-GFP-PH-1800-GFP-PowerHub/dp/B000NONM94/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2ERO4UJMPQ4U6&colid=35D2Z059SCA22

    Thanks everyone for all your help! I really appreciate it,
    Mtngr1
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution
    mtngr1 wrote: »

    Modified sine wave inverter/charger Many things will NOT be happy with it. Incandacent lights are fine, as are most brushed motors (universal motors).
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    You're still going to have to figure out exactly how much emergency power you need in order to size the battery bank.
    That said, I'd recommend AGM's for long-term storage as their self-discharge rate is lower than FLA's and there is less problem keeping them inside living space. Nor do they suffer water loss. Costs more, of course. Concorde is one good brand: http://www.solar-electric.com/cosuagmba.html

    As for keeping them charged, go with a good charger like the Iota: http://www.solar-electric.com/bach1.html You won't need to equalize the AGM's, but you may want to go for the 3-stage charging option.
  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution
    mtngr1 wrote: »
    It got deleted some how, but I meant small compact Frig-, 2.8-4.0 cu inches.

    TIA
    mtngr1

    2.8-4.0 cu inch refrig! Must be a very light eater. ;)

    As already mentioned, small refrig's take almost as much power as a full sized 15-16 cu ft. refrig. You need to plan for at least 1 kWH per day for refrig.

    Solar is not great for emergency backup. Power outages usually come from bad weather which tends to match up with little sun.

    In S. Fla we have hurricanes that last for a day or two and result in power outage from a couple of days to a week or more. Solar is a nice to have assuming it is sunny after the storm (and panels survive the storm) but relying on sun for a random period of need is a crap shot.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    When using gensets, Power Factor of the load becomes important.... Basically a device with poor power factor inefficiently uses the current in the AC line... A poor PF device is around 0.6 or 0.5 (takes ~2x the current to run the load as a good PF device would).

    Good PF devices are around 0.95 and the Volt*Amps is very close to Watts (Volts*Amps*PowerFactor).

    SteveK started a very nice thread trying to find the "most efficient" battery charger he could run with a Honda eu2000i:

    Question about battery charger selection with EU2000 generator

    Basically, most simple and cheap (and many good quality) battery chargers have poor Power Factor and will "load" the generator with "Apparent Power" and preventing you from adding additional loads.

    I.e., an 800 watt battery charger with 0.5 power factor will load the generator with 1,600 VA worth of current usage. An 800 watt PFC (power factor corrected) battery charger will use ~800 VA and allow you to add an addition 800 VA/Watts of load (note: the fuel usage will only be based on Watts and not VA rating of the load--basically fuel supplies real power, not apparent power).

    So, if you can get 1,000 watt battery charger or:
    • 1,000 Watts / 14.5 volts charging = 67 amps @ 12 volts
    We usually recommend 5% to 13% rate of charge for a battery bank. So a battery charger of that size will support upwards of a 670 AH 12 volt battery bank (~7-10 car sized batteries).

    Or, if you get a nice Iota DLS-45 12 volt 45 amp regulated battery charger for ~$150.00 and run a ~450 AH battery bank.

    Four x 6 volt "golf cart" sized batteries would make a really nice system.

    If you can live with a 300 Watt (600 watt for 10 minutes) TSW 12 volt input Inverter. This MorningStar unit is about the best smaller 12 volt unit out there (and very efficient with "Search Mode" and a simple 12 volt on/off remote switch input).

    And you can always add solar panels later (upwards of ~400 Watts) later.

    Now, assuming around 440 AH 12 volt battery bank (4 x 220 AH 6 V setup in series/parallel as a 12 volt battery bank):
    • 440 AH * 12 volt * 0.50 max discharge * 0.85 inverter eff = 2,244 Watt*Hours of useful power
    That is a good amount of power to run a home over night... You could run the genset every morning/daytime or second day (for ~2-4 hours per day) to recharge the bank (before you get your solar panels installed).

    A pretty cheap and serviceable setup for emergency power.

    You would need a larger inverter to power your fridge directly from the battery bank (~1,500 watts or larger for most appliances/inverters). Or just run the fridge/freezers from the genset during the day.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mtngr1
    mtngr1 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    Here where I live, we dont get bad storms. Im looking at Earthquakes, possible outtage from Solar Flares(might be unlikely), even EMP. Like I said, preparing for the worst, hoping for the best. Also the compact Frig Energy Efficient is strictly for Emergency. It says 278-298 kilowatts per year I think. Not sure what that works out to per day. The Western state Grid Blackout from 1996 wasnt from a storm.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution
    • 298 kWH per year / 365 days per year = 0.816 kWH per day = 816 WH per day
    You can get a cheap full sized refrigerator/freezer that will run around 1 kWH per day. Typically they run around 120 watts, but use >500 watts when defrosting (a few minutes) and >5x the current when starting the motor (why you usually need a pretty hefty inverter to start the compressor).

    The longest outage on the SF peninsula was caused storm damage in the late 1950's and that was for 5-7 days... And the major problem was the water tanks where about to run dry. (candles and eat up all the frozen food in those days)--I was just a very small kid when it happened.

    I could run a genset for a radio or get a small AM/FM radio (with headsets) that will run on a single AA battery for >140 hours (or have both ;)).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    You might want to read through this thread of refrigerator tests: http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=12272

    298 kW hours per year is 816 Watt hours per day. Don't count on those energy star numbers being 100% accurate, though.
  • mtngr1
    mtngr1 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    Actually, looking at just getting a compact Frig only, no freezer. I really dont eat to much freezer stuff and in an emergency, it will be to keep things cold. I wanted to ask if anyone that owns the Honda 2000, also owns the companion that is sold separately?

    Thanks
  • mtngr1
    mtngr1 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    I was reading that running the Honda 2000 on Eco mode a lot, tends to gum up the valves. Is this true?
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution
    mtngr1 wrote: »
    I was reading that running the Honda 2000 on Eco mode a lot, tends to gum up the valves. Is this true?

    Not in my experience.
    Honda EU1000i has over 6,000 hours on it with nothing but fuel, oil changes, and one spark plug. Left it unused for two years, put gas in it this fall, and it still runs. Yes it now burns a bit of oil.
    Honda EU2000i has over 2,000 hours on it with nothing but fuel and oil changes. It runs in eco mode whenever I use it (back-up charging). Starts a bit higher, slacks off as the batteries come up, revs again when loads come on. "Eco mode" is not the same as "stuck on idle".
    I'd say there's less problem with these than with fixed RPM generators that run on light loads and therefor never open the throttle much. And yes I've had some of them too.

    I don't have the "companion" model, but from the lit I've seen on it there's little difference between that and the standard 2000 except for it being the "dedicated slave" for a two-gen hook-up. A good Honda dealer would be glad to explain all about it.

    Note: it also has a 30A 125 Volt outlet.
  • mtngr1
    mtngr1 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Looking for Emergency Portable Solar Solution

    Bill, why 6 volt batteries in stead of 12v? Also I would really like to find a setup where I either have to add just the batteries or it's pretty easy to plug and play? Like an enclosure on wheels. Is there an enclosure with the inverter and everything in it except the solar panels? Where it's easy to add the batteries to the enclosure?

    Four x 6 volt "golf cart" sized batteries would make a really nice system.
    And you can always add solar panels later (upwards of ~400 Watts) later.
    Now, assuming around 440 AH 12 volt battery bank (4 x 220 AH 6 V setup in series/parallel as a 12 volt battery bank):
    440 AH * 12 volt * 0.50 max discharge * 0.85 inverter eff = 2,244 Watt*Hours of useful power
    That is a good amount of power to run a home over night...

    A pretty cheap and serviceable setup for emergency power.