Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

aglicknmex · November 2011

Greetings to all from Sunny SW New Mexico!!

As an old Motorola tech, I have answered a lot of questions about electricity in my life, but now I need a little HELP! Im new to posting here, but often browse!!

I have access to old stock(20 yrs old) unfilled EXIDE EJ-11 BATTERIES. These are single cell lead acid. Rated at 52 amps @ 8hrs from what I have found.

Question IS?? Has anyone had experience with how well will they perform when filled with electrolyte?

Any help would be appreciated!!

Big AL

Cariboocoot · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

Welcome to the forum.

Are you familiar with the term "scrap metal"?

The plates would have been "formed" 20 years ago when the batteries were made. That starts the process of deterioration, even if they are then drained of acid. Chances are they won't work very well if you try to energize them now. Plates may crumble and short out.

Twenty years ago Exide batteries were great batteries. But twenty-year-old batteries ... don't get your hopes up.

aglicknmex · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

Thanks ,but to clarify,

BATTERIES ARE BRAND NEW IN THE BOX, NEVER FILLED

I should have made that more clear.

Has anyone actually tried this? Filling new batteries, old stock????

Thanks!!

mike95490 · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

Won't work

The surface has been exposed to air too long, and you now have lead oxide plates. They won't work as good batteries anymore. They will work fine as dead batteries.

UNLESS, they had wax seals over the fill caps. even then, oxygen would get past the wax and ruin the plates.

BB. · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

The normal storage life of "dry charged" lead acid batteries is usually 18 months at the outside. Also, I would assume storage temperature will have an effect too... 18 months at ~25C (77F); 36 months at 15C; 9 months at 25C. (1/2 vs 2x life for every 10C change in storage/operating temperature--Hotter less life, cooler longer life--An old engineering rule of thumb).

While they probably do not meet factory specs any more... If you wish to try filling a set (or a few cells) and test them out--Why not...

Just be sure that the cost of electrolyte+cost to transport+cost/profit to recycle (if any) does not cost you more than you are willing to risk (obviously adding in any purchase price too).

Assume they are scrap, and if they do work at some level of use for you--Great. One thing to watch out for--I have no idea how long they will last in service (a few years?). Batteries are controlled corrosion--It is very difficult to make that a long life and a repeatable process.

-Bill

Cariboocoot · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

aglicknmex wrote: »

Thanks ,but to clarify,

BATTERIES ARE BRAND NEW IN THE BOX, NEVER FILLED

No, I don't think so.
Plate forming is done when the batteries are made. It includes filling them with acid. It was standard practice back when those were made to do this process, empty the batteries for "safe shipping", and send the acid along to the retailer separately. When the batteries were sold to a customer they'd be refilled and fully charged. It did extend shelf life significantly, but I seriously doubt it would give 20 years.

So it comes down to how much will it cost you to buy 'em and try 'em? Compare that to the cost of buying new and see if it is, in your opinion, worth the gamble.

But know in advance that it is a gamble.

PhilS · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

I have not tried this (just to be clear).

Years ago I worked at a place that sold batteries. We always managed date codes on filled batteries but not so on the unfilled ones. It was like the unfilled ones "didn't spoil" but there was nothing I remember actually stating that.

If you are getting a great price on these, can you take a chance and try a few?

I would. Actually, the price being really good, I'd get the number I'd want and go for it. (Of course, I've learned many of my best lessons the hard way)

Either way, YOU would then be an expert on the longevity of unfilled batteries! And what does the entity holding the batteries say? "Money back if they don't work"? "We've tried filling some and they work fine"?

Phil

aglicknmex · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

OK Im learning something here. Didnt understand the term "formed" properly

Sounds like maybe I will need to be the guy that tries this if no one else has!!

Need to find out exactly what electrolyte to use and see what happens!!

For what its worth I did inspect the plates thru the clear plastic and they have not crumbled in storage. Adding acid and putting them to work may be another story!!

tnx

BB. · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

It is the lead (and copper) that gets oxidized with Oxygen that kills the batteries by insulating the plates/damaging the plate grids.

Sulfating is reversible (the charging process).

There is the other problem of storing wet batteries for days/weeks/months withe less than ~75% state of charge. There, you end up with the fluffy lead sulfate (?) which over hours/days/weeks crystallizes into hard crystals. That lead sulfate never will participate in the charging process again.

Deep Cycle Battery FAQ
www.batteryfaq.org

-Bill

Fullpower · November 2011

Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

I HAVE filled, charged, load tested, and put into service engine starting batteries that were stored in dry charged condition for 23 years.
They were military 6THN size, built by Teledyne in 1986, purchased DRY and unused in 2009, at a garage sale.
the filled batteries took a couple days to attain full rated capacity, but they were put in service, and causing no trouble, until the boat swamped, and they were under salt water for a week. that killed them.

If the price is right, give them a try.
the scrap value will be higher than the cost of the electrolyte you use to fill them.
Question:
I am unfamiliar with the group size EJ-11 what are the dimensions, and configuration of the cells?

Vic · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

Hi aglick..

Know nothing of these batts. Did poke around a bit on Google. There is some reference to this battery type in Appendix III of this manual:
http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/16000-16999/CIM_16500_24.pdf

About Pg. 95, It is a bit hard to read all of the scanned type, and in a quick scan did not see reference to the activation procedure.

Surrette battery sells some batts Dry Charged, and states that there is a shelf-life of five years, and longer storage requires a longer Activation Charge to bring the cells up to target SG. A quick reference here -- scroll down to "Activation of a Dry Battery":
http://www.rollsbattery.com/content/tech-faqs#dry

Appears that this battery type that you have was available in a range of SGs, so you will need to guess correctly wen choosing the electrolyet used to fill them, unless the electrolyte is also available with the batts. These appear to be very good batts.

I'd give it a shot, if they are not too expensive. More later. Good Luck, Vic

aglicknmex · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

Thanks all,
Info on Activation is something I will need to pursue apparently.

I have made a contact with Exide, One really helpful guy took it as a challenge to find out and is sending out some emails to engineers in the company, so we might get some tech support.

Here is what I have found so far technical wise.

http://www.ctg123.com/rapid-quote-system/request/?p=EJ-11

Terminal quantity: 2
Overall length: 10.125 inches nominal
Overall height: 17.000 inches nominal
Overall width: 6.875 inches nominal
Separator material: rubber
Case material: plastic
Battery electrolyte: acid
Ampere hour capacity: 54.00
Time capacity in hours: 8.00
Cell quantity: 1
Voltage in volts: 2.0
Terminal type: nut-bolt
Plate material: silvium
Plate quantity per cell: 13
Storage/shipment condition: dry charged

Vic · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

aglick,

From the first link, the manual pg. 95 it states: 600 AH, 101 Lbs, 1.215 -1.170 SG electrolyte range, as requested by customer. The SG range is a bit difficult to read.

These must have been designed for very long life with that low an SG range. Perhaps some Telecom batts, altho IIRC, Ma Bell used NiFe or similar.

Good Luck, Vic

aglicknmex · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

It also gives the volume of 2.4 gal
way to go!!
Al

PhilS · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

aglicknmex wrote: »

Need to find out exactly what electrolyte to use and see what happens!!
tnx

I was unaware that there were "different kinds" of electrolyte (without getting into exotic NASA stuff).

I've been buying acid for years (I tried without much success to keep some krappy batts going, for instance). I buy it at a local auto parts store. It's sold in boxes: 1qt - $7.99; 6 qt - 12.49; 5 gallon - 24.11

VERY COOL that you are getting that engineer's help!

Phil

Cariboocoot · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

PhilS wrote: »

I was unaware that there were "different kinds" of electrolyte (without getting into exotic NASA stuff).

I've been buying acid for years (I tried without much success to keep some krappy batts going, for instance). I buy it at a local auto parts store. It's sold in boxes: 1qt - $7.99; 6 qt - 12.49; 5 gallon - 24.11

Phil

There are indeed. High sulphuric acid content makes the batteries "hotter" - more quick Amps, but shorter life. Lower concentration reduces over-all power but increases the lifespan. Chemistry is fun!

RCinFLA · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

A lot depends on if the batteries were preformed. A true dry charge battery is not. Both positive and negative plate are just pure lead in an unformed dry battery. If they were precharged then they should have been filled with water and there is still a limited shelf life of about a year or two. It is very rare these days to find true dry charge batteries. Most plate manufacturing process use a lead paste mixed with a diluted sulphuric acid slurry. A plate that has water/sulphuric acid 'wetting' will sulfate when exposed to air. This is what happens when electrolyte level is allowed to drop below top of plate edges.

Lead dioxide coating (specifically on negative plates) is reversible. Hardened sulfate is not. It will take several cycles to normalize the battery to clear the lead dioxide off the negative plates. Positive plates are normally coated with lead dioxide. It is what makes a positive plate a positive plate. Too much is bad for performance as lead dioxide is a poor conductor. It will evenually 'dust off' and drop to bottom of battery case.

aglicknmex · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

Anyone know current lead acid battery salvage value??

Trying to decide how much to offer for these batteries, 41 total. Hoping to get 24 good ones!!!

Since good performance is not guaranteed and I would need to buy acid. Ive been thinking about offering salvage price, plus negotiated flat amount.

IDEAS??

aglicknmex · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

Needless to say I would try a couple before buying 24x 2.4 gallons acid!!

Cariboocoot · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

aglicknmex wrote: »

Anyone know current lead acid battery salvage value??

Trying to decide how much to offer for these batteries, 41 total. Hoping to get 24 good ones!!!

Since good performance is not guaranteed and I would need to buy acid. Ive been thinking about offering salvage price, plus negotiated flat amount.

IDEAS??

The last dozen I took in a few weeks ago were $0.14 per lb. here in BC. It varies from place to place and day to day.

BB. · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

You will have to contact your local battery recycler... Different states may impose fees/processes/laws on the vendor and dramatically affect the payout/costs for recycling batteries.

I was trying to find Silivium to see if there was any cadmium in the plates (very expensive to dispose of the batteries):

DETROIT -- Exide Corp., Reading, Pa., is using the alloy, Silvium II, in the plates of the lead-acid batteries it furnishes to Sears Roebuck & Co. under its new three-year contract with the big national retailer. The plate material contains lead, calcium, aluminum, silver, copper and sulfur, and is expected to be used in more than 5 million batteries per year, according to sources at Sears.

The above alloy may affect your scrap price (don't know, just guessing).

-Bill

Fullpower · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

They have been using Calcium in ( maintenance-free) automotive batteries for decades, the addition of silver , copper and other 'patent medicine' is used in such minute quantity as to be effectively irrelevant to so-called scrap value.
Used automotive SLI batteries are almost all broken down, seperated, and their components recycled by the primary battery manufacturers themselves.

RCinFLA · November 2011

Re: Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

From Rolls battery site.

http://www.rollsbattery.com/content/motive-power-bulletins?q=node/46&phpMyAdmin=0610e516bf803196b5feee0b1ad65c08&phpMyAdmin=3jSJ-jdC5E7b53DHgV8TGvpSCF6

"Shelf life of a dry charge battery is five years plus. Store in a cool dry area. The positive plate has an unlimited shelf life. The negative plate will revert to lead oxide when in the presence of water and oxygen. If this should happen, the battery is not ruined, but activation will take considerably longer!"

aglicknmex · November 2016

2016 UPDATE I now have 3 of these batteries with a build date on box of 11/1988. I have successfully filled and charged 3 of these batteries with acid, charged for a week and they are now in service. Time will tell how well they last, but voltage is good and all signs indicate that old properly stored dry charged batteries, are good for a very long time. Activation was slow, days not hours. I alternated charging slow at first, then fast, slow, etc.

kc8adu · November 2016

they are all probably good.
i activated over 100 willard radio 2-45 bb-54-a cells in the last 10 years.
dates were from 1944.
none failed.
takes a long time for the gravity to rise though.
but they are fine once that happens.
used in military radios.
have a few delco dc12 here too.
from the 60's
antique car collectors buy them.
only 1 was activated by me.
and it worked fine.

Exide EJ-11 old stock, unfilled, how good??

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