Appliances on a Suresine-300

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  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    #32
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300

    Is it possible for wave forms to be externally synchronized(outside the master inverter)?
    NO
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  • bmet
    bmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    #33
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300
    john p wrote: »
    Is it possible for wave forms to be externally synchronized(outside the master inverter)?
    NO

    Maybe in the Inverter market it's not financially practical, but externally syncing waveforms to a master clock , reference, or timing signal(remotely located) is done all the time. Without that ability, we wouldn't have the internet, fax machines, broadcast TV, secure telecommunications, etc., etc., etc.
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  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    #34
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300

    OK BMET I will put it differently as you have pointed out their may be some confusion with others besides you..

    The poster was only asking about inverters..Is it possible for wave forms to be externally synchronized(outside the master inverter)?
    The is no practical way for a owner of 2 inverters that were not designed to have their outputs syncd together.,to sync the outputs. There is no redily available mains syncing device that can be purchased or built at a cost that the owner would be willing to pay .
    So the simple answer was and still is NO
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #35
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300
    john p wrote: »
    Sorry folks but me even telling you how to do it isnt going to happen. For a start every inverter has a different topology. The access point on one inverter will not be the same as on another brand of inverter. ..... Another problem is ,what happens if you make a mistake in the wiring and that results in the inverter becoming dangerous to use?? Are you going to be the one to fully accept liability ? or are you going to be looking to me to pay compensation to the the injured or worse persons family ??

    Relax. There are a thousand sites out there like hackaday.com where people post mods that could kill you. Ultimately the solution is for this to be built into a device by the manufacturer, like the inverter gensets, using an optical coupling. Safety and liability issues mitigated. Those that have the skills to do this post-sale, will.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • garlic
    garlic Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #36
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300

    My idea for the cascading operation simplified would be a shunt(or inductive pick up) on the master inverter output with the resulting potential across the shunt operating a biased
    op amp switching the remote input of the next inverter.At an adjusted current
    setting ~ 2 to 5a the next inverter would be switched on.

    what do you think?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #37
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300

    I think real engineers who want to do this would start with a schematic and understand how the thing works first rather than just buy one, take the case off, power it up, and start poking around inside to see what happens. :p

    Off-grid inverters do not function the same as GT inverters. Like John said, external synchronization isn't going to happen because you have to be able to shift the frequency generated inside.

    This whole thing is my fault because I was the first one who mentioned how nice it would be to be able to stack these MS 300's (in another thread). I've got to stop "opening my mouth". :blush:

    Did I mention this thread is now so far off topic it belongs in another section? Of course I'd have to open it up, power it, and start poking around inside to see if I could get the salient bits over to "Advanced" .... :p
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  • garlic
    garlic Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #38
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300
    This whole thing is my fault because I was the first one who mentioned how nice it would be to be able to stack these MS 300's (in another thread). I've got to stop "opening my mouth"

    You are off the hook too,I think it's kind of an obvious conclusion to those of us
    who like to look beyond what is just put on our plates;)
    Did I mention this thread is now so far off topic it belongs in another section? Of course I'd have to open it up, power it, and start poking around inside to see if I could get the salient bits over to "Advanced"

    That sounds like a good idea too,just don't short any thing out,stab yourself in the eye with a soldering iron ,or accidentally ingest a stray 12AU7.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #39
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300

    Maybe a thread "wishful thinking" ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    #40
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300

    Garlic your idea could get the second inverter going but it wont sync the sinewaves at the output.. even slightly out and all the nice smoke in your ICs will escape.
    Here is some things to think about if you want to attempt it..Im not going into detail,, just very basic.

    Off grid inverters mostly comprise 3 sections, input ,controller, output .. What you cant do is just cut the output from the controller to the outpute section and have it controlled by the control section of another inverter.. There is a feedback circuit to its input section. without that the input will shut down as it will appear to it that there is an output fault.
    Get yourself some circuit schematics of inverters and you will see the problems, and why its diffficult to sync the outputs unless the inverter was designed to do it. Ones designed to do it are not that different to ones that cant.But why they work is because the designer designed the whole thing to meet that criteria.

    Oh and another thing get yourself at least 4 identical inverters and you will have a good chance of ending up with 2 that will sync with each other. HINT.. MSW inverters are easier to do this with.
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  • garlic
    garlic Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #41
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300

    Thank you for the help John,I appreciate it.
    Garlic your idea could get the second inverter going but it wont sync the sinewaves at the output

    I understand that,I was working out just a part of the system.
    HINT.. MSW inverters are easier to do this with.

    I was wondering if that was the case.

    I found the schematic for a samlex 300 psw inverter,and I am studying that,
    but the person who traced it said that the samlex has a strange design,
    nevertheless I will keep in mind what you told me.

    Thanks again.
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  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    #42
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300

    Garlic be careful sometimes even a schematic of a model may not be the same exactly as they manufacture and sometimes because of parts problems change the design during manufacture. So you get 2 different model xyz 300 from same manufacturer... It not easy,but its possible to do it.

    But its obvious its a damn site easier to just buy a higher output inverter WITH A WARRANTY.

    I only did it as experiment. then they were never used as were not allowed to be at work as they no longer met the relevant standards.. Ended up destroyed in dumpbin.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #43
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300

    looks like you got sucked in john.:roll: what i said stands and let them make smoke if that's what they want to do.
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  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    #44
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300

    Niel ive given a few clues and warned them,

    I also understand they want to try things. How can I really say dont do it when I have already told them of my success . AND FAILURES.
    The only difference is really they will be paying for their failures out of their own pockets.. They are not going to get diddly squat from the manufacturers or their employers.
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  • garlic
    garlic Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #45
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300
    They are not going to get diddly squat from the manufacturers or their employers.

    Now,that right there is funny.

    Me: Y'know Jerry I've been getting twenty loads of logs for you every day
    this season and It'd be the right thing to do if you compensated me for
    that inverter I smoked.

    Jerry: WTF is an inverter?
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #46
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300

    And if you are smoking somthin', gimme some of that!
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • tallgirl
    tallgirl Solar Expert Posts: 413 ✭✭
    #47
    Re: Appliances on a Suresine-300
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    Totally agree! I've already purchased 5 of their products, and would be one of the first to scoop up their 1500 or larger inverter. There seems to me to be a real void of similar quality inverters in that slot.
    Can not understand why they don't act on the demand, it's not as if they can't.

    I believe ExelTech has several PSW inverters between 500 and 1500 watts.
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