You have to wonder

Where do people get their information from?

This was posted on the local Craigslist (BC Hydro will be implementing Smart Meters soon):

SMART METERS, THE DARK SIDE OF GOVERNMENT AGAIN!!

A smart meter will be transmitting and hydro will be logging and storing the data, they will have a complete history of your coming and going in your resisdence. They now know when you are likely to be home or not, eventually someone you DONT WANT to have this info will get a hold of it. Do any of think this might be an invasion of your privacy?


And here I thought they just logged how much power you use at what time and adjusted (upped) your bill accordingly. I didn't know they could magically watch you in your home. :roll:

Got paranoia? :p

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,149 admin
    Re: You have to wonder

    We have had this debate in California for years...

    The first is that the meters broadcast the data via digital radio (many people seem to be very concerned about radio wave emissions).

    And the utility will log the information every hour (or every 15 minutes for commercial)--Allowing the utility to close monitor household energy usage (and, by assumption, know when you are home).

    So far, the bigger issues that have gotten traction are security of the transmissions/meters, inaccurate meters (sometimes overcharging), and billing issues (appeared to be some issues with meter reporting and/or corrupted data packet being placed in utility file and never corrected).

    And my favorite (which has not been reported anywhere that I have seen) is that smart meters can turn on/off the utility power remotely. I know an electrician that has reported dozens of meters that have turned off one leg of the 120/240 VAC split phase power to homes in our area (utility has to come out and replace meter). Hopefully the utility/meter company(ies) have fixed this problem.

    I certainly worry that the meter network could be hacked--There could be a lot of havoc created until the network is fixed/updated.

    You can see lots of interesting information with a Google Search.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder

    Trust me: burglars have easier ways of knowing when you're home or not. They aren't going to bother hacking a network and sifting through data on millions of homes to find out where and when to hit.

    That things will go wrong with the system is an absolute certainty. Things go wrong with the system we have now with exactly the same results as you mentioned.

    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder

    Slashdot just had an article on them a while ago:

    Meters can spy on TV viewing:
    http://www.smartgridnews.com/artman/publish/Technologies_Metering/Smart-meters-can-spy-on-TV-viewing-habits-researchers-claim-4017.html

    The meters "relay" signals (like wi-fi signals - I think they use zig-bee ) from one to another, so while your meter only updates it's data evert 30 minutes or so, it's constantly acting as relay for everyone else too. So, there is a lot of EM "SMOG" which will effect your wifi connections. But you dinner in the microwave comes out faster !

    And the billing department can switch them off and on remotely.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • ggunnggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    mike90045 wrote: »

    And the billing department can switch them off and on remotely.
    They always could; it just took dispatching a truck and a technician to do it. There's no reason to suspect that the fact that they now can do it by data transmission will make it any more likely that they will cut you off.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    And the billing department can switch them off and on remotely.
    ggunn wrote: »
    They always could; it just took dispatching a truck and a technician to do it. There's no reason to suspect that the fact that they now can do it by data transmission will make it any more likely that they will cut you off.

    With SmartMeters, the clerk at the billing desk, could switch it off at 12:01 AM, when your payment is late, and switch it back on at 9:02am when the bank transfer happens, along with the late fee. The old system to roll a truck to pull the meter, gave you an extra day or 3 of grace. And you can bet the disconnect / reconnect fees will be used a lot more than before.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • GreenerPowerGreenerPower Solar Expert Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder

    There are states with regulation that the Poco can not cut power even though the customer didn't pay the bill for sometime. Before the smart meters, there are "smart meter socket" that the Poco can control remotely. They would cycle power on/off every 1/2 hour or so. People would go nuts and have to pay the bill.

    GP
  • DarkStarDarkStar Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    mike90045 wrote: »
    With SmartMeters, the clerk at the billing desk, could switch it off at 12:01 AM, when your payment is late, and switch it back on at 9:02am when the bank transfer happens, along with the late fee. The old system to roll a truck to pull the meter, gave you an extra day or 3 of grace. And you can bet the disconnect / reconnect fees will be used a lot more than before.
    There is currently no Smart Meter on the market that has the capability of remotely switching off the power to a home. Seriously, there are no relays inside of these things and it is a direct copper connection from service to home.

    Here's a link to an ifixit teardown of a Elster REX2 Smart Meter being installed in a lot of areas: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Elster-REX2-Smart-Meter-Teardown/5710/1
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    DarkStar wrote: »
    There is currently no Smart Meter on the market that has the capability of remotely switching off the power to a home. Seriously, there are no relays inside of these things and it is a direct copper connection from service to home.

    Here's a link to an ifixit teardown of a Elster REX2 Smart Meter being installed in a lot of areas: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Elster-REX2-Smart-Meter-Teardown/5710/1

    Well, the original old ones used a Triac to switch power - relays are so old school

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/03/smart-grids-done-smartly/
    "But even more pressing and immediate, in terms of vulnerabilities, is the remote shut-off capability in smart meters. Digital smart meters have an electronic disconnect switch that allows the utility company to shut down electricity remotely." ........ UPDATE: In a follow-up e-mail, Moreno said that “most of the 2.2 million second-generation electric SmartMeter meters are capable of remote connect/disconnect.”

    Because a company does not use the feature, does not mean it doesn't exist. 80% of the reason for smart meters, was to institute neighborhood blackouts in order to preserve the Grid. (That worked real well for the San Diego blackout 9-2011) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Southwest_blackout

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_grid#Load_adjustment
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • jagecjagec Solar Expert Posts: 157 ✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    And here I thought they just logged how much power you use at what time and adjusted (upped) your bill accordingly. I didn't know they could magically watch you in your home. :roll:

    Got paranoia? :p

    The idea is that the smart meter can tell when you're using power (more likely to be at home) and when you're not.

    Of course, a burglar could just look at the windows and see if you've got any lights on. This type of monitoring occurs in real-time, WITH a "smart sensor" that can tell the difference between power usage due to lights/TV vs. power usage due to fridge/sump pump/wireless router/AC. Sounds like the burglars already have better tools than the government!:D

    As for "they can turn off your power", well, they've always been able to do that...I'm only going to complain if they start turning off my power even though I've paid the bill.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder

    here's the sad news about the protective tin foil hats:
    http://berkeley.intel-research.net/arahimi/helmet/
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder

    LMAO only at Berkeley!
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    mike90045 wrote: »
    here's the sad news about the protective tin foil hats:
    http://berkeley.intel-research.net/arahimi/helmet/

    modern day dunce hats by any other name.:roll::p

    i'm not too sure that the guys doing the study shouldn't be wearing them as well. i guess their next project might be a study as to why many people who hit themselves in the head with hammers tend to be angry and in pain with or without previous said tin foil hats. geeez.:roll:
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    niel wrote: »
    modern day dunce hats by any other name.:roll::p

    i'm not too sure that the guys doing the study shouldn't be wearing them as well. i guess their next project might be a study as to why many people who hit themselves in the head with hammers tend to be angry and in pain with or without previous said tin foil hats. geeez.:roll:

    Hahahaha I LOVE it! On a sadder note, there are those walking among us who would swear all this is true - - - and some of them want to run the country :cry:
  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder

    Crap, now I need to upgrade my tin-foil hat.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    techntrek wrote: »
    Crap, now I need to upgrade my tin-foil hat.

    ok, try it 1 inch thick and then you can do a study on why you neck hurts.:cry::p:p:p
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    niel wrote: »
    ok, try it 1 inch thick and then you can do a study on why you neck hurts.

    Perhaps made out of Copper sheeting might to the trick! :D:D:D:D
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    solar_dave wrote: »
    Perhaps made out of Copper sheeting might to the trick!

    better yet make it an expensive one made of silver, gold, or platinum at 1in thick and let me try the prototype.:D:D:D:p
  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder

    Nah, I just need to use a fine mesh and tie it to a ground rod. I figure I can make it portable by driving the rod into a gallon jug filled with dirt. tongue.gif
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • ggunnggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    Hahahaha I LOVE it! On a sadder note, there are those walking among us who would swear all this is true - - - and some of them want to run the country :cry:

    Beeeebeeeebeeeebeeee... POLITICS PROXIMITY ALERT! :D
  • bmetbmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder

    Once spent a day at Garner State Park. Camcorder needed a charge, so I plugged it into an empty 'cabin'. Immediately a park ranger pulled up to the same cabin, went inside, found the device, and started looking around for the owner. I figured I should fess up or possibly have it claimed by the park. The ranger wasn't upset, but apparently they have some monitoring capability, whether it was a smart meter, surveilance camera, or co-incidental timing, I don't know.

    I was allowed to finish charging my camcorder.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: You have to wonder
    bmet wrote: »
    Once spent a day at Garner State Park. Camcorder needed a charge, so I plugged it into an empty 'cabin'. Immediately a park ranger pulled up to the same cabin, went inside, found the device, and started looking around for the owner. I figured I should fess up or possibly have it claimed by the park. The ranger wasn't upset, but apparently they have some monitoring capability, whether it was a smart meter, surveilance camera, or co-incidental timing, I don't know.

    I was allowed to finish charging my camcorder.

    it makes me wonder why they needed to monitor it? are they now called power rangers?:confused::p:p:p
  • OK0KOKOK0KOK Registered Users Posts: 6
    Re: You have to wonder

    You Guys crack me up!!!!!:D:D:D









    .:cool:
Sign In or Register to comment.