Gotta love living off grid!

waynefromnscanada
waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Up and around relatively early this morning, cooked breakfast, the works, then heard that there's a major power outage covering the whole Eastern half of Nova Scotia! Checked and sure enough, it's off and I would have never have known it CBC Radio hadn't told me while I was eating my toast! I'm loving it:p:p:p
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  • Slappy
    Slappy Solar Expert Posts: 251 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    I'm loving it:p:p:p

    I second that motion. power outage is common around here. I have grid power, but converted 3/4 of the house to off grid power. except for the 220v stuff and my sons room. never really know if it goes out unless a neighbor ask if we have power, or my son yells, dad, did you flip my breaker again. :D
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    I'm just wondering what happens when my inverter takes a dive. How long to get a spare shipped & hooked up? I guess I should consider obtaining a spare, along with a spare water pump.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #4
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    My GT inverter failed a couple weeks ago and it will probably take another month or two for the replacement. Isn't reliable grid power nice. Don't even know my solar power is even out for 6 months or so just this year.:cry::p

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Urbandialect
    Urbandialect Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    Up and around relatively early this morning, cooked breakfast, the works, then heard that there's a major power outage covering the whole Eastern half of Nova Scotia! Checked and sure enough, it's off and I would have never have known it CBC Radio hadn't told me while I was eating my toast! I'm loving it:p:p:p

    You're my hero :p I wanna be just like you when my system grows up
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!
    Urbandialect wrote: »
    You're my hero :p I wanna be just like you when my system grows up

    Hahaha Well Urbandialect, it took quite a few years to reach this point, but I'm extremely happy with the independence it allows, and it gives great satisfaction indeed. I hope that eventually your system works as well as mine. The whole thing gradually grew into something beyond my wildest dreams, never would have guessed I'd one day be running the whole house on it, but there it is, and I owe so much to BB, Niel, and others who helped and tried to guide this stubborn mule along the right path :D
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    BB Bill,

    Sorry to hear that you lost the GT inverter. Funny tongue in cheek humor.

    Believe that this is the second GT inverter that you have lost, and also complete replacement of panles. Good thing that you chose a good installer.

    OOOPpssss, back to topic:

    As there is no grid here, am very happy to have reliable power (knock, knock), much more relaible than my PG&E Grid "power". And, if the power ever goes out here, know who will be fixing it, and am able to get to it on my schedule.

    Off-Grid is not cheap but at least it can be fairly reliable -- the only power outages here have been because needed to change, or add something.

    Good Luck, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #8
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    Vic,

    Actually--the Second GT inverter was a free upgrade to the first one already out of warranty (and still working fine--I was pretty happy about that :D). It was the second one (new and improved for safety and longer life) that failed after a few months (at the time, evening on only running a 100 watts or so--and popped the 20 amp 240 VAC branch breaker when it failed). :roll:

    The new GT inverter (and/or with the new solar array) seemed to output ~15% more power on average.... Was a good combination.

    For whatever reason, Schneider is running 4-8 weeks or so for a replacement inverter.

    More or less--just a data point on generating your own power (off grid) and having belt+suspender+staples+glue for emergency backup. You never know what will fail and how long it will take to repair/replace.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    I got a spare for that...

    Always good to have spares, I'm celibrating 10 years of being off grid, and I've only had one major outage, when I in advertantly left my inverter on when I took an extended bicycle trip to Florida 7 years ago, I had also taken down my array leaving a single panel hooked up in the shade. I came home with my batteries fried. Just 2 Golf cart batteries then. I have spares for every thing but my new froklift battery, mostly from things I've out grown. Don't think I could quite get my whole array going on 24 volt, but next year I'll likely go for a Midnite classic, and will have spares any but a dead battery, I could even weather a couple dead cells as I could do a 12 volt system.

    So 12 hours outage then and 10 minutes installing the forklift battery (and like time installing new or updating equipment) is all the down time I've had. I have reduced my usage to near nil due to long periods of cloudy days but that has not been a real problem, though the alternataive was to have a backup power source.

    I agree, It's good to be off grid!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • RandomJoe
    RandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    I have the best of both worlds! :D

    If some component dies in my off-grid system, I can just plug into the regular wall outlets.

    If the grid goes down, I only know because the ceiling lights go out! (And that has happened a disconcerting number of times since I got the system set up. Grid used to be so very reliable around here...) I get a kick out of reporting outages to the electric company using my computer to access their website via my cable modem connection - all powered by the off-grid system at that point!

    My system is still pretty tiny compared to my usage. It'll make about 5-6kWh/day in summer, 3-4kWh/day in winter. But that's enough to keep the essentials going without a generator running in the back yard should another big ice storm come along. (And those have been disconcertingly more frequent in recent history as well!)

    I also have backups for the backups as it were. A separate panel feeding a 12V battery / CC for the ham bench. I could run a few items off that. A 1500W 12V inverter, worst case I could rearrange the main system to use it. And (getting REALLY desperate here!) I still have the Harbor Freight panels sitting around, hook 'em to one of my small AGMs and I might be able to keep an LED light on with them! :p (And if All Else Fails I can still fire up the generator!)
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  • Mangas
    Mangas Solar Expert Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    Boy howdy, what's a grid?
    Ranch Off Grid System & Custom Home: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF Custom House Construction, all appliances, Central A/C, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Propane furnaces, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    Mangas that is one heck of an off grid system, Mind me asking what it costs? How did you get the design?
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!
    RandomJoe wrote: »
    I get a kick out of reporting outages to the electric company using my computer to access their website via my cable modem connection - all powered by the off-grid system at that point!

    did not your utility get curious as to how you were able to report that outage that way if your power was out or are they just that dumb they couldn't put it together that their power is not magical to be able to mysteriously power your computer and modem to report it?:confused:
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    Most cell phone browsers today can handle full web sites. I use my cell phone as my Internet connection so I could get on the net using my laptop and cell phone. The local cell site has a genset. So there are 2 ways with no backup power at all.

    Via cable modem is trickier. You could power it with an under-desk UPS, that is the easy part. The problem is every 1/2 to 2 miles there is a pole-mounted amplifier and not all of them have battery backup. The ones that look like big green boxes do, but even then that battery isn't going to last very long.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    ah yes, that's true for i had forgotten about cell phones being i don't normally use one.
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  • Mangas
    Mangas Solar Expert Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    5 1/2 years ago our system turnkey cost was about $80K (not including the back up genset) which includes all civil work, hardware, labor, electrical in conduit etc. Very happy with the design and install which was done by the same people who are residential and commercial electricians and solar installers. The did all the home's electrical too.

    While we tried to engineer it right, we didn't know what to expect especiallly pushing two variable speed A/C compressors and air handlers in addition to all the gear in the house.

    Last year, we added four extra panels to better balance the house's two zone power consumption (closer equalize the zones voltages). For some reason one zone used about 15% more power. We also replaced the 5 year old Trojan L16s with the newer L16 REBs' which are using quite a bit less water than the older version.

    I think the prices have come down since we built ours for comparable components by maybe 10% - 20% +. And, the newer MPPT inverters have a cleaner sine wave, panels are 225 w, charge controllers handle more too and the overall technology is probably better all the way around. Windsun and moderators can correct me.

    The system's photos are posted somewhere on the forum.

    Last week, we replaced the five year old 15 KW Generac 1800 rpm unit with a Cummins Onan brushless 20 KW genset. The new Onan seems to be a fine piece of machinery. Glad to see the Generac go for many expensive reasons. The Onan installed was about $13K and essential to our lifestyle and remote location.
    Ranch Off Grid System & Custom Home: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF Custom House Construction, all appliances, Central A/C, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Propane furnaces, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
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  • RandomJoe
    RandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!
    techntrek wrote: »
    Via cable modem is trickier. You could power it with an under-desk UPS, that is the easy part. The problem is every 1/2 to 2 miles there is a pole-mounted amplifier and not all of them have battery backup. The ones that look like big green boxes do, but even then that battery isn't going to last very long.

    Yep, that's my limiter right now. Most outages don't last that long, but I've had a couple that were long enough to determine that the cable company's box dies about 2 hours into an outage. The box I'm tied to sits in my next-door neighbor's back yard, wonder if the cable co would let me power it during outages? :p (Although I'm not sure how much farther that would get me - guess it depends on how widespread the outage is.)

    Ah well, I now have tethering on my cell phone so if I'm still online after two hours of power outage I'll just turn that on and connect through it! :D
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  • chevenstein
    chevenstein Solar Expert Posts: 100 ✭✭
    #18
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    My favorite moment of this sort to date has been at night watching bright blue flashes on ice covered trees in the distance during an ice storm while my off grid system was just fine. Now, not being able to get out to the county road due to tangled lines and trees down on the road is another matter. I do have a back way out but it's best traversed in a log skidder!

    Years ago an acquaintance of mine who had a massive house with a large diesel genset on an auto-trasfer switch in a concrete bunker under the garage didn't notice that the grid had gone for three days, which is how long it took to run the genset out of fuel. You could sort of hear it running in the boiler room as the fuel oil lines ran through the generator bunker in plastic conduits that carried the sound, otherwise no indication. The only reason it ran out after three days and not a month on the massive buried oil tank for the building's heat is I never connected the transfer pump. I didn't want to see that nice Perkins engine get wrecked by high sulfur fuel!
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    My house and garage are essentially still off-grid. The grid tied 10kw system only sells to the utility. We installed a load system with a few circuits for some loads and battery charging.

    Latest power outage was only noticed when I looked at the Enphase website and saw a flatline on my power curve. I flapped around for a while thinking I had hardware problems...then phoned a neighbour who said that, indeed, the power was out. I kinda felt silly:blush:

    Ralph
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #20
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!
    Ralph Day wrote: »
    Latest power outage was only noticed when I looked at the Enphase website and saw a flatline on my power curve. I flapped around for a while thinking I had hardware problems...then phoned a neighbour who said that, indeed, the power was out. I kinda felt silly

    I had a similar experience not long after I installed my battery backup system. A friend called to ask about the best way to drain her water system in case it got too cold in her house (this was during a 15F cold snap). I was completely confused because she's farther down the trunk line than I am so if she's out, I should be out, but I told her our power was fine. Duh, we had been running from battery power for a half-hour and I didn't even know it. I had to call her back and sheepishly admit my error. :cool:
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #21
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    So August 18th I write...
    Photowhit wrote: »
    I agree, It's good to be off grid!
    and assorted stuff about celebrating 10 years off grid, then 2 days later I find a honey of a deal on 2.2 acres with a 2000 16x60 mobilehome on it ($12,000 the pay off of the mobilehome the guy was buying a house with his fiance') So I went into the ugly musolium of the local electric coop and signed up, true cruellty $25 a month before you buy any electric...

    I doubt I'll convert the MH to gas, more likely I'll build a cabin and run a water line out do a composting toilet, and french drain for the grey water. Do solar and pay the water bill. Then rent the MH as a room (though I'm in Missouri and there are no restrictions a seperate residence would require a larger septic to handle.)let the 'roommate' pay the electric.

    First electric bill since 1998... bike trip and rooming house/girl friend until 2001.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Steven Lake
    Steven Lake Solar Expert Posts: 402 ✭✭
    #22
    Re: Gotta love living off grid!

    All you off grid guys are lucky. I'm still trying to get off grid, but I can't get my usage below 250kwh, which is the magic number I need for the system I want. IE, one that gives me what I need, but doesn't break the bank. :(
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