Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

xolar · July 2011

I was contacted to do a firmware upgrade and some troubleshooting on a system that another company installed and was super excited to get to play with something new.

The system is comprised of:
2-XW 6048 inverters
1-xw CC with 2000 watts of pv
2-strings of full river DC400-6 batteries
1-15,000 Kubota generator connected to AC2
1- 15,000 rated 8,000 actual be only currently producing 2000 watt Thompson and Howe hydro with a paco turbine. This is currently managed by a direct logic DL06 plc controller which is a bit overkill but I am going to implement some new features because it is already there, it is connected to the ac1 port.

So here is the question ????

The hydro is being used as an AC coupled charging source, the problem is at this time the power is currently limited 2000 watts and when there is a larger load the frequency drops and disconnects the hydro and begins a hunting syndrome.

Is it safer to swap the generator and hydro's input so that the generator is AC1 And the Hydro is AC2 so that I can enable gen support, I want to set it so that if the system is pulling close to max the inverter can pick up the extra load from the solar/batteries during the day. I know that I can do grid support with load shaving but I worry about someone activating the sell feature and allowing the excess current to back feed the hydro. more than likely it would be okay because of the load dumps that are installed but it still seems risky.

There are other problems that exist also, like the charge rate has to be manually changed when charging from the generator I am running it currently at 35% per inverter trying to maintain 8% of the battery bank charge factor.

I had thought about rectifying the ac feed and using a midnite classic to control the output, it simplifies a couple of features it just utilizes the inverters a lot and I think the battery bank is currently to small to support this.

I am working on a single line and will try to get this up so that there is a visual along with this.

Jaspon

I am looking for advice

mike95490 · July 2011

Re: Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

If you think someone is going to get into the configuration, and muck about in it, just walk away NOW.

If they understand that they leave it alone and call for support, then maybe it's worth doing.

They need a battery monitor/totalizator to track the charge level of the batteries.

xolar · July 2011

Re: Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

Mike90045,

Hows it goin its been a while,

I agree I will be adding this along with a few other gizmos along the way

Jason

xolar · July 2011

Re: Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

Here is a basic pdf of the equipment layout

mike95490 · July 2011

Re: Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

For the hydro, I'm looking at a electrically operated buttterfly valve, 4", $$$ to switch off the hydro when batteries are full, or the pond gets low. Forget the dump load, and save the bearings . Well, maybe have a dump load "just in case".

xolar · July 2011

Re: Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

Actually,

I am going to utilize the dump load system, with the design they have now every third day they run the generator to pump water. I am going to add a function to the plc that a grundfos sqflex pump is the priority dump load. The whole design needs to be tweaked a bit but I need to get the hydro online because it takes up so much of the loads there are 6 fridges and 4 houses with day labors building throughout the property.

The hydro currently has an electronic clay valve that controls the operation of the valves.

RCinFLA · July 2011

Re: Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

I would put the hydro through AC2in but the hydro should be characterized for frequency/voltage change versus load transients. The XW would then manage the battery charging.

If the rate of change of the hydro frequency is too great as load transients happen the XW will release. Just because the hydro stays within the frequency limits spec'd by XW does not mean it will stay locked. The XW has a limited bandwidth on tracking rate of change.

Putting load shaving limits may help but you may have to set it at an undesireablely low power level on the hydro ACin if a low load to high load transient causes XW to release.

xolar · July 2011

Re: Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

I understand this, but doesn't the gen support feature allow the batteries to carry what ever load the hydro or a generator can't support even if I backed it off 80% of 8000 watts 6400 watts any thing over this would be minimal and the batteries can come off float.
I would think that the hydro would be able to support most of the load a good portion of the time.

Thanks

Jason

mike95490 · July 2011

Re: Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

xolar wrote: »

I understand this, but doesn't the gen support feature allow the batteries to carry what ever load the hydro or a generator can't support even if I backed it off 80% of 8000 watts 6400 watts any thing over this would be minimal and the batteries can come off float.
I would think that the hydro would be able to support most of the load a good portion of the time.

Thanks

Jason

Hydro ( and wind) while you think you have "stable" power, still fluctuates a lot, and loads wont like it. It may be stable enough to power a PFC charger, but generally, wind and hydro are collected as 3 phase wild AC, rectified, and fed through a charge controller to the batteries, and the inverters feed the loads clean AC.

Dave Angelini · August 2011

Re: Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

xolar wrote: »

I understand this, but doesn't the gen support feature allow the batteries to carry what ever load the hydro or a generator can't support even if I backed it off 80% of 8000 watts 6400 watts any thing over this would be minimal and the batteries can come off float.
I would think that the hydro would be able to support most of the load a good portion of the time.

Thanks

Jason

It should as long as your hydro controller is working right! Have you done the XW firmware update yet?

xolar · August 2011

Re: Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

Making advancements here, I went back last week after receiving the operations manual. I found a faulty solid state relay, and the dump load elements are the wrong size.

I had the system producing 3700 watts and the dump load was stuck on at 18 amps per leg 240 vac. I was able to get the xw to pass through load and charge 21 amps, I have the charging backed down to 15% at this point in time to keep it from falling out due to frequency drop.

The next test:
I will replace the solid state relay decrease the dump load element size to the proper percentages related to output power and begin trying to use the Hydro as the grid utilizing the grid support feature for backing up the hydro when more power is needed.

I am calculating the system will run solid at 33 amps per a leg, I am going to start my initial tests bringing the grid support in at 85% and see how high I can push it. Any suggestions?

Jason

Hybrid XW 15k hydro, 2k pv, 15k diesel generator.

Comments

Categories