Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

topper
topper Solar Expert Posts: 113 ✭✭
in Solar Product Reviews & Opinions #1
Wondering if anyone has caught word as to a release date. I am interested as it would cut down # of strings/combiners as well as I max of the system and reduce overall v-drop. Preliminary specs would also be great.
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  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    I suspect there will be a large efficiency penalty for running that high a voltage for battery charging.
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  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    #3
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    While I am sure there would be an efficiency drop if going for more than about a 4:1 down-conversion ratio, it would also give an alternative method of charging from grid tie systems when the power is down.

    However, I shudder to think of the NEC issues and how things could go horribly wrong with a dual grid-tie/battery charging setup. 600 volts DC is not something to mess with for the average homerowner.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    people look for an alternative way to use their high voltage straight gt systems when the power goes down, but you can't all of a sudden just start to charge a battery for if a battery is not maintained it will be dead when the power actually does go out. that would mean leaving it connected to the battery to charge and it would no longer be a straight gt system with straight gt efficiency. so bypass the battery and allow for inverter back feeding and then you are limited to power just while the sun shines. there aren't any easy answers here with using a 600v controller unless one wants that to be a battery based system to begin with and needed the high voltage to, for example, overcome resistive losses due to a very long wire run, but then again it was able to use that in the straight gt system so i am at a loss as to the real goal here in using a 600v controller.:confused:
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  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    I agree Neil it would be bad design practice to build a battery based system with a 600 volt charge controller if it is fully battery based. I suppose if a customer had say 20kw of pv they could do a 3kw battery system and 17kw into a grid tie inverter and have a few of these units around to charge the 3kw system when the power goes down but it would seem to make more sense to do an ac coupled system.

    I will go as far as to say that a grid tied system with no batteries that is getting converted to batteries should get re wired for a standard charge controller. I bet the pay back would be quick I suspect a very large hit in efficiency with this 600 volt controller. if it was say 15% less efficient what are you losing every day by not rewiring?
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    I have no knowledge of what the Xantrex HV controller is, but efficiency wise, its not going to be 15% loss on the controller, that I sure of just based on what it would take to cool a 4kw unit if 15% of the energy was heat

    There are many different typologies to consider when doing the large step down required for a 600V to 48V converter, but speaking just from a technology view one could build converters that achieve 95% or better efficiency with the higher voltage range, its just not cheap to do.

    Possibly, some are postulating what a 600V charger would be efficiency wise by seeing the decline in efficiency as manufactures release 200 - 250V controllers, my understanding, these are just extension of the current crop of controllers ( synchronous buck design ) which are not optimal for large voltage differentials

    The coming GT voltage range controllers are completely new typologies ..
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  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    I should clarify the 15% was just a random number I have no knowledge of what X is doing or the actual efficiency number I was just making an example.
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  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    #8
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    With such a high voltage limit, I wonder if something like this would be good for a wind turbine application. A wind turbine running open voltage could reach very high voltages that would fry most MPPT controllers. That's why the Midnite Solar Classic MPPT controller requires the use of the Clipper. With a ceiling of 600V, it's seems that no "Clipper" type system would be needed to regulate or limit the voltage. That could be a substantial cost savings since the Clipper had a list price of $1700.

    What do you guys think about using the XW MPPT80-600 for wind turbine purposes?
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?
    keyturbocars wrote: »
    What do you guys think about using the XW MPPT80-600 for wind turbine purposes?

    What does XW think about it ??
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • n3qik
    n3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    #10
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    My $ .02.

    The MPPT80-600 would work in parallel with a new/current GT system. The role of the this control work be to maintain a battery bank during grid power. On grid failure, the GT system would shut down and the MPPT80-600 with an XW6048 would supply critical loads.
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  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    #11
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    Good point Mike. I should ask Xantrex.
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  • topper
    topper Solar Expert Posts: 113 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    I pulled this off ElectroIQ
    http://www.electroiq.com/index/display/photovoltaics-article-display/1522871988/articles/Photovoltaics-World/bos-components/inverters/2010/october/schneider-electric.html

    Schneider Electric Xantrex XW MPPT 80 600 Solar Charge Controller
    The XW MPPT 80 is an innovative solar charge controller that accepts array voltages up to 600V; significantly reducing system wiring gauges and conduit costs. The Xantrex XW MPPT 80 600 is a photovoltaic (PV) charge controller that tracks the maximum power point of a PV array to deliver the maximum available current for charging batteries. When charging, the XW MPPT 80 600 regulates the battery voltage and output current based on the amount of energy available from the PV array and present state-of-charge of the battery.

    I have not found any real world specs on this item as yet, but the possibilities.
    I could set up an initial GT system and if by chance I wanted to go battery based, I could. No rewiring of strings, etc.
    Or start battery based with the option of going straight GT when ever.
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  • zeuspaul
    zeuspaul Solar Expert Posts: 59 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?
    I have not found any real world specs on this item as yet, but the possibilities.

    Try post 6 in the following thread.


    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=9275

    Zeuspaul
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  • topper
    topper Solar Expert Posts: 113 ✭✭
    #14
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    I guess I joined the forum a little late to catch that post.. THANK-YOU!!!!
    Hopefully "early 2011" means by summer June-July.
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUpsVE_-YUk&feature=related
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    Good to see Mark again!

    That's one big charger...
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    11-29-10%20033%20%282%29.jpg

    From Dave's Picasa Web Albums

    I think they will be ready! There really has been only firmware fixes and a shading algorithm. A very solid performer and a tool in the box for challenging designs.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    Thank-you Bill! Hope all is well in "the city"
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #19
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    My honor Dave...

    -Bill :D
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • RegGuheert
    RegGuheert Solar Expert Posts: 102 ✭✭✭✭
    #20
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    I'm considering one of these for a new 48-V off-grid system where the ground-mounted array of 20-240W Sharp panels is ~150 feet from the batteries. I was thinking two strings of 10 panels each. It sure would make cabling easier and cheaper!

    All that said, I've never worked with high-voltage solar before. In this case, Voc would be ~370V. What are the major concerns in this case? Is NEC compliance a problem? Any issues with running this through buried conduit?

    TIA!
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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭✭
    #21
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    Pretty big box. Is that for real or is it shown with one of Xantrex's conduit boxes attached?
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #22
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?
    RegGuheert wrote: »
    I'm considering one of these for a new 48-V off-grid system where the ground-mounted array of 20-240W Sharp panels is ~150 feet from the batteries. I was thinking two strings of 10 panels each. It sure would make cabling easier and cheaper!

    All that said, I've never worked with high-voltage solar before. In this case, Voc would be ~370V. What are the major concerns in this case? Is NEC compliance a problem? Any issues with running this through buried conduit?

    TIA!

    It is not any different than what is already being done now, other than being able to charge a 24v or 48v nominal battery. As with any high voltage, you need to think about it and take basic precautions.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #23
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?
    Solar Guppy wrote: »
    Good to see Mark again!

    That's one big charger...

    He is now titled " director of advanced developement "
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • tallgirl
    tallgirl Solar Expert Posts: 413 ✭✭
    #24
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?
    RegGuheert wrote: »
    Any issues with running this through buried conduit?

    TIA!

    THWN instead of THHN. Fortunately most THHN is dual-listed, so you can transition from the combiner box / DC disco into the pipe without worrying about the insulation listing.
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  • NZRR
    NZRR Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    #25
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    Does anyone have any thoughts on disconnecting means for this equipment? I don't know of anyone that is making an 80A 600V disconnect other than the giant Square D type.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #26
    Re: Expected release date of XW MPPT80-600?

    That was what they had in my upgraded GT Inverter (Xantrex/Schneider). No small animal.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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