What are you using for off-grid internet access?

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

sat is the lowest cost option, propbably about 80-120 month, if you think thats expensive, don't even bother looking at wiress plans, very low caps and unless your in 3G area, which is doubtful, very slow data rates

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

Many rural areas are going fiber optic as demand increases. Dial-up for now and then DSL when you get the demand. Something like 10 miles between substations I seem to remember. It is one of the next things you check for after sun patterns on the winter solstice....OK maybe rainfall or well water!

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

If you've got 3G (cellular) service at your location, then that's not a bad way to go and probably the cheapest as long as you don't exceed the usage limits.

Tethering is a loop-hole. If you have a cell plan with "unlimited" internet access, then you use your phone as a modem for your computer. The problem is that A) most providers forbid tethering (they want to sell you another account for their 3G modem card) and cell providers are beginning to move away from unlimited internet.

DirectTV used to (probably still does) accommodate full-time RVers by allowing them to sign an affidavit that they are off the grid and so they could get a cable box that worked without the phone connection back to the DirectTV network. They do have satellite internet access, but it's a different sat so you have to re-align your antenna when switching from TV to internet. Still not cheap though - 100/mo just for internet.

A lot of rural areas now have wireless providers popping up. They find a local high-ground and put up some central units, and then use commercial 5ghz wireless units at the user end to talk back to the central unit. I've seen subscriber rates as low as 50/month. These systems actually work really well.

Another alternative is to shoot your own long-distance wireless link, if you can find someone that has internet access and will let you use their connection, and the Ubiquiti stuff is available to the public and pretty cheap:

http://www.netgate.com/index.php?cPath=31_61

If you have neighbors with the same problem, you could shoot a link to them, shoot from them to the next property and so on until you've established a link back to someplace that does have internet access. I would bet that any small-town ISP would love to sell you access if you were setting up the links yourself. The main drawback is that you would have to deal with your neighbors and sooner or later that can lead to a feud...someone is going to end up thinking that their internet is "slow" because someone else is overusing theirs. Gripe, grumble and the next thing you know it's the Hatfields and the McCoys all over again.

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

here is your 1 watt AP:
http://www.radiolabs.com/products/wireless/networking/1-watt-router.php

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

Problem with most wireless connections is that they need a line of sight to "see" the transmitting antenna. If you are in the Bush, or very flat country that line of sight can be pretty short.

Sat systems need a clear view of the southern sky, ~30 degrees above the horizon depending on your latitude. Snow, heavy rain and fog can obliterate the signal sometimes as well.

T

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

That may in fact be true. What I know about Wildblue comes from my brother in laws experience in the Pacific NW, plus a WildBlue forum I have used for tech advice on the hardware which is identical to Xplornet. (EDIT PS http://www.dbsinstall.com/WildBlue/wildblue.asp This site reveals that they still only use the Anki f2 111w satellite. What they do have is a number of "spot beams" (as do most satellite ISPs) that are specifically focused to various areas across the continent.)

What I also know about wildblue is that in some places it is sold through Direct TV and in other places it is sold through local REA co-ops.

Tony

PS When I get my computer back with all my bookmarks, I will post links to a number of pretty useful satellite internet forums. (Harddrive crash,, I hope I get most of my data back!)

What also should be mentioned about Sat. internet is ping times. Because of the distance involved in getting up to the bird, and then back to the NOC of the ISP, you might see in an ideal world of 600ms, but it can easily be 1500ms depending on a number of factors. This usually kills any gaming, makes streaming video hard to do. We do use VOIP, but there can be considerable lag due to the ping times.

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

Don't discount dedicated access from the cell carriers unless you're sure you don't have a signal. We live off grid but are on the top of a "mountain" (it's tall for around here but dwarfed by the Green Mountains over the VT border) so we get decent cell coverage (towers on the adjacent hills). We have Verizon with the MiFi 2200 device (self contained EVDO modem/router/wireless access point). The system works great - several people can connect with their wifi and surf at older cable modem speeds for $60/month (including taxes and fees). My only gripe is the annual contract. The cap is 5gigs of transfer per month, of which we use about half on average.

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

Yes Tony, we're all so laid back the pace of dial-up doesn't phase us a bit. If you believe that I have ''waterfront" land I could sell you...MPAC considers it waterfront, it's really swamp maple.

Ralph

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

Hear, hear!

People are shocked when they hear me say, "Well, I do the network thing for money, but the truth is I hate computers".

They also send me text messages, which I always ignore, and then when they see me they ask, "why didn't you reply?" I just lie and tell them my phone doesn't do texting so next time, since they ALREADY HAVE THEIR PHONE IN THEIR HAND, why not dial my number and just TALK to me?

I think of it as my own little contribution to "Civil Disobedience". I'm also that guy who you are standing in line behind who is holding up the show because he refuses to give his phone number to the cashier.

I played with an iPad. Not impressed. I work on Apple products when I get paid to. I won't buy one though - I'm NOT going to PAY Steve Jobs to tell me what I can and can't do with my own hardware.

"Gee-Whiz" cuts no ice with me.

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

In years past I was looking into setting up a WISP (Wireless internet service provider)

I live in a rural spot in Missouri and I have DSL avalible since I have a nuclear plant a couple miles away, but several towns here did not have any Highspeed internet available. WISPs require line of sight and have a range up to 25 miles depending on the equipment.

If you have several people who want to get together and set one up it might well be cost effective, costs are tower rent, T1 or T3 lines and equipment. at $100 a month alternatives I think it would take 30 or so individuals to make it viable and cheaper...

Be aware though that incentive money is out there for phone service hubs and many/most of the rural areas here have DSL available now.

I have access to wireless at work/and a laidback enough job to use it, I've thought about picking up a kindle as I'm in 3G area, just for Email access at home. I listen to more books than I read, but I download some magazines, though I's a bit covoluted to get them on the kindle for free...

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

For antennas - check out Ramsey 12db, $35

http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=LPY244P

And as to long USB cables, I've found they use such thin wire, the voltage drop is so much, after 30', you loose too much DC voltage. Cheap HUBS work as "repeaters" but the suck up some power too. I guess you could use a powered hub at the last leg, to get decent voltage to the radio, but it's a kludge.

I'm setting up a linksys with DD-WRT as a relay with Repeater bridge mode

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

As promised with a new hard links I mentioned

http://www.wildblue.cc/wbforums/index.php
http://www.satsig.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
http://www.dslreports.com/forums/56

And for our Canadian neighbours:

http://www.xplornetsucks.com/forums/

All of these have a number of useful forums and tips about keeping your service up and running. One of the biggest problems with remote sites is getting service and service guys to come out and work on balky systems.

My only neighbour and I have a complete set of spares on hand all the time, Modems, TRIAs, cables, dish units etc and the tools to do what we need to do to keep the systems in top form. A half degree off and performance drops off until it drops out completely.

Tony

PS. Most Satellite services (Xplornet/Wildblue/Hughes etc) are, from what I hear, over subscribed in many if not most markets. The reality is that there is a fairly finite through put available through the sat spot beams. The result of this over subscription is that during prime time, 5-11pm speeds can drop off to those of dial up, or even slower.

The reality is that most people who need more bandwidth are able to get "real" high speed at work, so that they can indeed work. Sat service is mostly used by folks at home, and at recreation properties. The net result of this is that folks like me who use it full time, can choose to our big down loads off prime time, either during the midday, or late at night.

Xplornet's FAP (fair access policy) is based on your percentage of bandwidth relative to others. If you use too much in any given hour, they slow you down in the next hour, and continue to do so until you throttle back. The advantage of this system is that it come back to "average" in a couple of hours if you change your behavior.

Wildblue's FAP is more complicated as I understand it. It seems that you are subject to a 30 day rolling average, and if you exceed that average, they slow you down for the remainder of the billing period. (I may not have the details quite right, but I think the gist is right). The problem with this system is that you may or may not be able to see how much you have been using, ergo you may not know that you are about to be FAPed. It also makes it hard to do business, as it takes many days, or even weeks until your "normal" speeds are restored.

My brother in law got FAPed because his teenage daughter fell asleep while she was gaming. The overnight bandwidth use used up several months worth of average, so he was throttled back to below dial up, even though he was never warned by WB!

Bottom line, as with most things off grid,, most choices come with pretty big trade offs.

T

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

Thansk to all for the GREAT info and links - been spending too much time looking at them...:D

In our mountain shack, we do not have phone or power access, but have a neighbor on o close by ridge (~1mi as the crow flies) that is in line-of-sight and has WIFI from his Sat feed. He has agreed to let me use some of this bandwidth.

Thinking about the "2W alpha unit" that DWH suggested and the 24dB parabolic antenna - could get both for ~$100. Seem like a place to start.

DWH - any other suggestions or things to look out for?

Thanks to all for thier time and comments!

1 mile is not far if you have line of sight. 1 mile is a very long way if there is anything in between.

I think with an Alfa and that 24 you *probably* won't have any problem connecting, but it almost certainly won't be at full 54mbit speed. Not that it matters, since his satellite internet might only be 1mbit, so even a low speed wireless connection is probably going to be faster than the uplink bandwidth anyway.

Still, whether you can connect or not - it depends. One thing that most people don't fully realize, is that it's a two-way radio link. I've seen a lot of people who see 3-4 bars on their indicator, and wonder why they can't connect. Well the reason is that the access point has the power to reach them, but their laptop doesn't have the power to reach back. They can hear the access point, but the access point can't hear them.

So, even if you can hear your neighbor's access point, with your Alfa/24db rig, that doesn't guarantee that his access point will hear you. And/or vice versa and you get the idea.

You might have to diddle around moving his access point, or your antenna or whatnot. Sometimes, moving the antenna even 6" one direction or the other can make the difference in whether or not you can connect. This is ESPECIALLY true if the access point is inside of a building. That one extra 2x4 in the wall, or that water pipe in just the right place can be enough to prevent connecting. Though, sometimes moving it 6 inches doesn't help, but moving it 6 feet does. It's more art than science.

You'll probably want to download some signal strength software. I can't recommend any for Windows or Mac, because I do all that sort of thing in Linux.


One thing you will probably want to consider (especially if you have any problems connecting ) is to be a good neighbor and show your appreciation by presenting him with the gift of a shiny new high-gain set of antennae for his access point.

For instance, if he has a Linksys I think that comes with 5db antennae and there are high-gain antennae kits for it. Like this set of 9db bad boys:

http://www.amazon.com/Alfa-9dBi-Booster-OMNI-Directional-High-Gain/dp/B003284472/ref=pd_cp_e_2

(Note: I think this is a typo - while the Alfa has a RP-SMA connector, I'm pretty sure that the Linksys access points use the larger RP-TNC connector. Always make sure you buy the doohickey with the correct connector. I would eyeball the neighbor's access point before ordering. You might need this set instead:

http://www.amazon.com/Alfa-Booster-High-Gain-OMNI-Directional-Antenna/dp/B00328BEY8

It's possible that the older Linksys boxes used RP-TNC and the newer ones use RP-SMA. You tell me...I can't remember. )

I actually have this exact same antennna (with the RP-SMA connector) for my Alfa. The difference from 5db to 9db is HUGE. Mine came with a magnetic base. The antenna screws to the mag base and there is a short wire from that to the Alfa. I normally don't use the mag base though, I just screw the antenna directly to the Alfa and eliminate the short (1.5m) antenna wire (it CAN make a difference).

http://www.data-alliance.net/-strse-97/Antenna-9dBi-omni-dipole/Detail.bok


I think though, that the 24db is probably way up into the overkill range for a piddling little 1 mile line of sight shot. It can't hurt, but I think even a 10db or 12db directional would probably work (especially with a set of 9s on the AP).

Re: What are you using for off-grid internet access?

mike90045 wrote: »

NetStumbler and cousins described in wikipedia can help.

http://www.wlanbook.com/netstumbler-windows-7/

NetStumbler has issues. There are a LOT of netcards that it doesn't support and according to that wiki page:

"As of February 2010, the author is working on an updated version that will work correctly with Windows Vista and Windows 7."

I see the lastest version available on the NetStumber site is 0.40, and that's years old.