electric hybrid waterheaters

solarvic

Anyone here have any experiences or thoughts about the electric hybred water heaters? There are 3 brands with test reports in Octobers consumers report. I have been researching the GE Geo Spring water heater, Says it uses 550 watts with a recovery rate of 69 gallons. Also has 2 4500 watt elements inside the tank if you need more recovery. Lowes and sears price them about 1599.00. They are a normal waterheater with a heatpump on top that takes heat out of the air to heat water. 8)8)Solarvic8)8)

BB.

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Solar Guppy likes them more than Solar Thermal Panels for his Florida location. They are about 2x as efficient as a normal electric hot water heater, plus they cool/dehumidify the room/garage where they are installed.

Here is the GE Website:

http://www.geappliances.com/heat-pump-hot-water-heater/

And here is a Google search of this forum with discussions about the heat pump water heaters.

-Bill

AntronX

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Pretty neat. It consumes 550 Watts (electrical) but 1446 Watts (thermal) flow into the tank. Added benefit it also works as an indoor air conditoner. Perfect for hot garage. Spec sheet (PDF) says it saves 3,023 KWh/yr over standart 50gal resistive heater. At $0.11/KWh it saves $332.53 annually, so it will pay back for itself in 4.5 years at $1,500 retail price. To save same amount of electricity with PV, 1.84 KW DC system will be needed. At $5.5/W thats $10,120. I am concerned about the noise heat pump makes. At 58 dBA that's like the level between the vacuum cleaner and lawnmower from 35 feet away. There could be an improvement in sound level and heat pump preformance with inverter based brushless DC compressor motor.

sub3marathonman

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Just one bit of information about these water heaters is that they work MUCH better in the heat. I believe the 3x efficiency is at about 80°, if you're up in the 90's or into the 100's it will go to 6x efficiency. But, in the cold, it really drops quick. I think GE has a chart showing this effect.

n3qik

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

I am looking into this on.

http://www.northrdt.com/Geyser/index.html

I like this setup, as the tank will leak at some point.

solarvic

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Ken Have you checked the price of one of these units? It looks simple enough to install but I don,t like the way they show how to connect in thier vidio. I think I would use the alternate connection they show in the manual. Did you find a dealer and the price of the unit? I know I could install it myself. solarvic

n3qik

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

I did get a price some time ago, but can't remember.

russ

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

The only ones listed by Energy Star are credited with a COP of 2.0 to 2.5

How North Star claims 370% savings over some undetermined typical system - probably a 50 year old tank that is cruded up.

They also claim 50 to 60% savings over conventional heaters - again whatever that means.

Their big claims and certainly anything that produces a COP of over 2.5 is not doubt so much BS:

The maximum COP numbers come from a low hot water temp - like 50 degrees C (120 F).

jcgee88

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

solarvic wrote: »

Anyone here have any experiences or thoughts about the electric hybred water heaters? ... I have been researching the GE Geo Spring water heater... Lowes and sears price them about 1599.00. They are a normal waterheater with a heatpump on top that takes heat out of the air to heat water. 8)8)Solarvic8)8)

I happened to see the GE model on a recent visit to Home
Depot.

It seems like a neat idea, to take heat out the air, rather
than using gas or electricity to generate that heat. In my
case, I have a conventional gas water heater, so I'm not
sure how to figure out if it would save money or not.

The brochure suggests installing it in the attic. Putting
aside the possibilty of a leak in that location (which would
be BAD), that would be ideal in the Summer. I'm not sure
the attic would be a good location in the Winter, as it's
pretty cold up there! The garage would seem like a good
location, except that most people's garages are already
filled to the brim!

John

RCinFLA

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

I also looked them over at Home Depot.

At $1500, the payback to break even is about 4-6 years depending on your particular hot water usage rate and grid kWh pricing.

Probably doesn't make sense if you are already using gas hot water heater.

It has a heat pump consisting of compressor, heat exchanger, and evaporator coil on top to absorb heat from surrounding air. Basically an air conditioner in reverse.

In Florida, it might cool down my garage a bit which would be a side benefit.

SkiDoo55

Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

I emailed for price quote and Got reply this morning.
Gyser Unit is $1050.00 and for me at least in CA shipping $92.00. Might be less the farther east your are.

Based on their energy saving calc since I have gas hot water and I didn't even factor in my solar preheat system it would Only save $81.19/yr. Payback for me would be 14 years or more. With 30% Fed credit would take 9.8 yr to payback. If I had Elect it would pay back in about 4-5 yr.

They are a neat solution for someone that has electric hot water and the concept of these units are interesting. I like the heat pump being not an intregal part of the tank as the tank will go out before the heat pump.

Good Thread

solarvic

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

n3qik wrote: »

I am looking into this on.

http://www.northrdt.com/Geyser/index.html

I like this setup, as the tank will leak at some point.

Ski doo55 said they want $1050.00 + (92.00 for shipping for the Geyser. So about $1150 and you still need a water tank. The Ge hybred water is $1599.00 at lowes or Sears and it has a 10 year warranty.So for about $450.00 more you get the waterheater tank. I hear the Rheem is even lower cost. Do you think the geyser will last more than 10 years? One of the reasons waterheaters leak from rust thru is the anode rod gets eaten away by the acids in the water so then the tank gets attacked. It seems to me if you changed the anode rod before it all disapeared that the tank might last beyond the warranty period. So there is pro,s and cons of both setups. 8)8)Solarvic

SkiDoo55

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Solarvic is correct, they both have there pro's and con's. As to how long they will last I will still guess that the tanks on either will possibly go before the compressor. Could be wrong depending on the quality of materials. Water conditions etc. By not using the electrodes for heating on the tank in itself will lengthen the life of the tank, lower buildup rates by not having the water come in contact with the hot heating element. My last Gas hotwater tanks had an 8 yr warranty and I finally changed it after 22 yrs. Just knew it was going to go out some night on a holiday weekend.
Everyone will need to evaulate there own needs and situation and run the costs. No single solution is always the best or only one. My only concern on these is in cold climates, which I lived in (Upstate, NY 18 yr) you might have to turn the heat pump function off or face over-cooling of the area that it's located in. Most require 40°F or above for operation. Pretty much if you currently have or have to use electric for hotwater any of these Hybrid heaters will save you money and pay back in a very reasonable period.

n3qik

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

The only ones I would recommend to stay away from are the type you install by inserting the freon coil into the tank yourself. Most are NOT doubled wall coils and could leak freon into your water.

If it is UL listed, then I believe it will have a doubled wall heat exchange.

solarvic

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

I lucked out and got one of those Ge Geospring waterheaters on sale at sears at $1295 on sale. Power co suposed to give rebate of $300.00 and 30% on my IRS tax rebate. Today I got it connected and is in my utility room. Put a power utility meter on it and will see what it uses in a year. :DSolarvic:D

solarvic

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Update on my geo spring water heater. I really like it so far. It used 45 kw hours for the 1st month. It has 2 12 vdc fans and the compressor is about the size of your fist. I have it located in my utility room which is off the kitchen and livingroom and you can,t hear it run if the tv or radio is playing so the fan noise isn,t bothersome to me. The only downfall is it cools my kitchen and utility room a little when it runs. That will be a plus in hot weather! It came preset at 120`F and I changed it to 125`, adjustable to 140` Just exchanged eletrric dryer to a ng dryer so I am hoping my upgrades make my electric generation balanced with my usage. :Dsolarvic:D

BB.

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Wow, that is 1/3 the cost to run my natural gas water heater for a family of four.

-Bill

techntrek

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Thanks for the update. I'm very interested in going this route when my electric heater springs a leak. My only worry is it would be in an unheated utility room so winter temps will be a problem. It does get some heat - everything radiated out of one of my living room walls, but nothing direct. Ironically I might have to direct some air from inside the house on to the condensor (I heat with wood so I have a nice hot source I can draw from). Then in summer I may have to draw in some hot air from my garage.

SteveK

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Happy user of the Northroad Geyser heat pump water heater here. I drove to Maine and bought one at the factory. Simple install and we are never out of hot water. We run it without the electric element assist in the basement. It has worked well so far even at temps of 11-12C. No defrost cycling as of yet.

We try to synchronize the running of the clothes dryer with it (partially vented to the mechanical room in a non-condensing fashion). I have them on timers to do so. This sucker takes alot of water from the air. I am of the belief that for every gallon of water it extracts from the air is the equivalent of 1KW of energy savings.

Our hot water cost for a family of 4 is $11 per month these days.

Mount it floor standing as the vibration upstairs would be far too much.

Price was $999 4 months ago (you won't find that on the web)...

Oh, and it does indeed qualify for the US Federal Tax incetives even though it is not yet listed. I contacted ***.gov to make sure and it comes with certification.

solarvic

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

techntrek wrote: »

Thanks for the update. I'm very interested in going this route when my electric heater springs a leak. My only worry is it would be in an unheated utility room so winter temps will be a problem. It does get some heat - everything radiated out of one of my living room walls, but nothing direct. Ironically I might have to direct some air from inside the house on to the condensor (I heat with wood so I have a nice hot source I can draw from). Then in summer I may have to draw in some hot air from my garage.

I have the Ge Geospring waterheater and have used 115kw since instalation of 10-20-10 till 01-05-11. I have it in my heated utility room in a double wide manufactured home. Have learned a few things since I got it. It will cool down the room a lot when it runs. The fans are 12vdc and run at variable speed. The colder the room gets the faster the fans run. I can,t even hear the compressor as the fans are louder. I am wondering if the compressor is dc also. It is about the size as an average fist. I don,t get any vibrations and my utility room is at ground level backed by my living room. Since I have a free gas at my place I decided to put in an unvented ng space heater and an unvented gas fireplace. Since my furnace doesn,t run anymore I think my electric bill will even be less. :Dsolarvic:D

n3qik

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

solarvic wrote: »

Since I have a free gas at my place

Why not go with a NG water heater????

solarvic

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

There was no way for me to get into my attic to put in a vent for a ng waterheater. The insulation is about 15 inches thick and I was afraid of fire hazard and didn,t want any more roof penitration. I did think about using a ng waterheater that coukd vent thru the wall with a fan but the waterheater location was too far from an outside wall. Since I already had an electric waterheater it was easier to put in the electric waterheater. I didn,t have the gas plumbed in either. There were other considerations and advantages. I have air conditioning, I caught the waterheater on sale at sears for 1299.00, 1 year to pay without interest, $300.00 rebate from the power co. and my 30% tax break that brought the price to a ng. waterheater. Since I have had it I never needed to use the electric heater element. I cashed in my 401-k plan and needed the tax break also.
:Dsolarvic:D

solar_dave

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Please enlighten me on the free nat gas solarvic!

niel

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

i think i can do that for him. he has a gas well on the property if memory serves.

solar_dave

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

niel wrote: »

i think i can do that for him. he has a gas well on the property if memory serves.

me wants one of them! Why not just run a nat gas generator instead of solar?

SteveK

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Sheesh, some guys have all the luck!!

techntrek

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

Nah, better to leave it in the ground and keep the CO2 out of the air. Would be really nice for a backup genset in a major emergency, though.

solarvic

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

solar_dave wrote: »

Please enlighten me on the free nat gas solarvic!

They have drilled lots of ng wells In my area of western,Pa. and Eastern ohio. I have had the well for over 5 years now. The landowner gets royalty payments for the gas and a set amount of gas to use at your home for heating ect. I had already started to assemble my solar system before I knew I was getting a gas well. Bieing grid connected I don,t have to pay the electric co much. From memmory I think I only purchased about $60.00 worth of electric for the year plus the electric co. paid me $300.00 rebate for installing the Geospring waterheater. So between changing to that water heater from a regular waterheater, changing out an electric dryer for a gas one and putting in the spaceheaters that don,t need electric I probably might not ever have to purchase any electric. And I got 2 ductless air conditioner heat pumps installed after air conditioning system. :Dsolarvic:D

RCinFLA

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

solarvic wrote: »

They have drilled lots of ng wells In my area of western,Pa. and Eastern ohio. I have had the well for over 5 years now. The landowner gets royalty payments for the gas and a set amount of gas to use at your home for heating ect. I had already started to assemble my solar system before I knew I was getting a gas well. Bieing grid connected I don,t have to pay the electric co much. From memmory I think I only purchased about $60.00 worth of electric for the year plus the electric co. paid me $300.00 rebate for installing the Geospring waterheater. So between changing to that water heater from a regular waterheater, changing out an electric dryer for a gas one and putting in the spaceheaters that don,t need electric I probably might not ever have to purchase any electric. And I got 2 ductless air conditioner heat pumps installed after air conditioning system. :Dsolarvic:D

What is involved with driers and filters for raw NG from the ground? Does it have to have regular maintanance?

solarvic

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

The well tender takes care of it. So far I never had any troubles. My brother has had a gas well since 1985 and never had any trouble with dirty gas. :Dsolarvic:D

BB.

Re: electric hybred waterheaters

I talked with one local guy who has a "wet gas" natural gas well--Sounds even cooler:

wet gas, natural mixture of hydrocarbons that may be gaseous or both liquid and gaseous in the reservoir and that contains an appreciable proportion of compounds heavier than ethane (e.g., propane or butane) that are condensable when brought to the surface.

He can use the condensate to run liquid fuel motors around his place.

-Bill