electric hybrid waterheaters

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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #32
    Re: electric hybred waterheaters

    That is what I know as NGL - natural gas liquids. Meaning associated hydrocarbons that travel along with the natural gas.

    That can be some tricky and hazardous stuff. I would be very happy for the well operator to take care of it!

    Russ
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #33
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    Sears has the geo spring waterheater on sale now $200.00 off and free delivery to store. Since the tax rates were extended for 2 more years did the energy rebates get extended also for waterheaters an air conditioners ect?
    Solarvic
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  • autoxsteve
    autoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    #34
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    Solarvic,

    It sounds like this is the one to get (GE) as Sears indeed has it on sale.

    I am close to pulling the trigger on this and balance out my electric consumption. Only loss I would have is selling or tossing my whirlpool traditional electric water heater (400 bucks). Maybe I'll wait until after my annual bill comes in April.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #35
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters
    autoxsteve wrote: »
    Solarvic,

    It sounds like this is the one to get (GE) as Sears indeed has it on sale.

    I am close to pulling the trigger on this and balance out my electric consumption. Only loss I would have is selling or tossing my whirlpool traditional electric water heater (400 bucks). Maybe I'll wait until after my annual bill comes in April.
    I see the present sale expires 3/19/2011. They seem to run special sales often on holidays ect. I got free financing on mine for 12 months with the sears card. Didn,t see anything about free financing in this sale. So far I like mine. Bet there will be an Easter sale or a decoration day sale. My old waterheater was still working. Since My waterheater is at floor level in my utility room I might put my old one in basement and connect a couple extra solar electric panels I have.
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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #36
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    The lowes near me had an open box of the GE heat pump water heater. They had it marked $1250 and since iw was from February, I was able to talk them down to $930. I also got the 10 year extended warranty for $80. This will be going into the house we are about to move in to. It was too good a deal to pass up, especially because that house is all electric.
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #37
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters
    Leper wrote: »
    The lowes near me had an open box of the GE heat pump water heater. They had it marked $1250 and since iw was from February, I was able to talk them down to $930. I also got the 10 year extended warranty for $80. This will be going into the house we are about to move in to. It was too good a deal to pass up, especially because that house is all electric.

    Did you hit them with the 10% off coupon that comes in the postal service change of address kit? hehe ;)

    PS Home depot will honor those coupons as well! do dah
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #38
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters
    Leper wrote: »
    The lowes near me had an open box of the GE heat pump water heater. They had it marked $1250 and since iw was from February, I was able to talk them down to $930. I also got the 10 year extended warranty for $80. This will be going into the house we are about to move in to. It was too good a deal to pass up, especially because that house is all electric.
    You got a real good deal. Don,t forget that it still gets you a $300.00 taxbreak and your electric co might give you one also. I got $300.00 from my power co. :Dsolarvic:D
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #39
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    If my basement wasn't so cold, I would really consider Heatpump HW..

    Anyways, if you are in the US military (or a Vet), you can get 10% off
    at Lowes and Home Depot. Just bring proof.
    I'm not sure about the top-end limit per-purchase.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #40
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters
    XRinger wrote: »
    If my basement wasn't so cold, I would really consider Heatpump HW..

    Anyways, if you are in the US military (or a Vet), you can get 10% off
    at Lowes and Home Depot. Just bring proof.
    I'm not sure about the top-end limit per-purchase.
    Do you have to have a credit account with them to get the 10% veterans discount? Reason I ask is my brother wants to buy a new log splitter. Solarvic
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #41
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters
    solarvic wrote: »
    Do you have to have a credit account with them to get the 10% veterans discount? Reason I ask is my brother wants to buy a new log splitter. Solarvic

    No credit account required, or go to the post office and get a change of address kit, 10% coupon in there.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #42
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters
    solarvic wrote: »
    Do you have to have a credit account with them to get the 10% veterans discount? Reason I ask is my brother wants to buy a new log splitter. Solarvic


    There is a little info on the web about these discounts. I was told by a friend
    who is also a Navy vet. I now carry a copy of my discharge papers when
    I go to those two stores. I do not have a store credit account. (Visa).

    I've read that some vets, reservist & active duty folks could not get the
    discount at some locations. It might be up to the store manager.

    The local stores always give me the 10%. Since my retirement checks
    aren't that big, every little bit helps.

    I wish Ace Hardware had 10% off for vets! I have one 1/2 mile away!

    Cheers,
    Rich
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  • SteveK
    SteveK Solar Expert Posts: 387 ✭✭
    #43
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    Xringer we are close enough to have compatible cellars. We use an HP water heater in ours. It still works great. We use the Nyle (Northroads) Geyser retrofit. Our basement get to 50F. I'm not sure how the others would work but it made a large impact on our power consumption. We do not use the aux element scheme either....
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #44
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters
    SteveK wrote: »
    Xringer we are close enough to have compatible cellars. We use an HP water heater in ours. It still works great. We use the Nyle (Northroads) Geyser retrofit. Our basement get to 50F. I'm not sure how the others would work but it made a large impact on our power consumption. We do not use the aux element scheme either....

    I can see where it would work well in summer and keep it dry down there.

    But during cold weather, it's 50F down there for months.
    Being only 800sqf, I would worry about a HP pulling the air temp to 40F down there.
    Which would make our hardwood floors even colder! (Increasing space-heating cost).


    We are using about 1/2 gallon of oil per day ($2) for hot water.
    $730 a year ($61 a month). I'm predicting that will increase substantially over time.

    A HP might be worth it, even if I just ran it in the summer.
    What does one of those things cost?

    Thanks,
    Rich
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  • SteveK
    SteveK Solar Expert Posts: 387 ✭✭
    #45
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    Wow, even our sq/ft is the same.

    Here is what I do. I built an insulated mechanical room to house the solar, washer/dryer, water heater and chest freezer. I vent the colder air through the wall into the uninsulated portion of the basement. The mechanical room stay ~56F and the rest of the basement gets down to 50F.

    The Nyle Northroads Geyser is the only setup that you can effectively duct the inlet/outlet air to seperate enviroments. Very handy and it's a real asset to us.

    We remove 5 gallons/week of condensate from the basement air. Remember that every gallon is equal to 1KW of energy saved...this in addition to the simple COP savings. The water removed is distilled...

    The Geyser is also the only setup that busts up the stratification in the tank allowing you to have a full 50 gal of hot water. The Geyser has an industrial pump that circulates and samples the water temp from the bottom of the tank and will cycle off/on according to it's temperature sampled.

    Nyle specializes in lumber drying, very large piles of it, the geyser has a bigger brother too.

    It is a rugged product with an industrial look/feel (very weighty). I got mine for $900 and the hookup took all of ten minutes...

    Oh I forgot, in the worst months of the year where the basement is coldest we spend $15 a month on hot water. This using it for dishwasher and washing for four. I can drive this easily with the Exceltech XP1100 inverter.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #46
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    If the rest of your basement gets down to 50F and the insulated room stays about 6 deg warmer,
    that means a pretty good amount of heat is coming off the freezer and the other power using hardware in there.

    Most of the leakage heating in my basement comes from my oil burner,
    which wouldn't be warm at all, if I was using an alternate method for Hotwater.
    My freezer is so small, the heat pumped out of the food is minuscule.



    But, I have 'part' of a very effective ASHP already. If I could get it repaired,
    and running with a refrigerant-to-water heat exchanger,
    it could be used at 50F w/o any problemo.
    http://ecorenovator.org/forum/geothermal/1456-propane-r-290-heat-pumps-5.html#post13397

    If I placed the compressor unit outdoors, it could heat out hot water
    when it was down to 10F outside..

    There is a good chance that this old Sanyo could make 36,000 BTUh..
    If it could, I could run the exchanger into my old HS Tarm boiler
    http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Xringer/HSTARMOT35.jpg
    and not worry about it's losses too much.

    If it was above 10F outdoors, that old Sanyo might even supply enough
    hotwater to allow for some baseboard heating for the house..
    Especially, if I was running it off a PV array.. :)
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #47
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    "$15 a month on hot water"! Wow! 50 cents a day. That's excellent. 2.4 kWh..

    It must be drawing peanuts during the warm months. A Solar PV app for sure!

    $900 is in my price range too.. Just need to add a good tank.. Did you install it yourself?
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  • SteveK
    SteveK Solar Expert Posts: 387 ✭✭
    #48
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    Well we use 4.2 KW/hr per day. We are in a co-op here and the rate is $.117 per KW/hr. Sounds great but we don't qualify for some of the state incentives because of it. No worries though...

    We do alot of laundry down there and it's good to know that we reclaim a large portion of the wasted energy. The water tank leakage helps and the freezer, well that's another shocking success story. I chose to build the mech. room in the part of the basement that is more deeply buried and that helps too. No windows and such.

    Yes I installed it. You need a pipe wrench...that's it. Everything gets installed through the drain at the bottom of the tank using simple washing machine hoses. We retrofitted our existing 6 year old water heater tank.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #49
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    4.3 kWh is still only about 88 cents (@21 per kWh).
    And with just two retired folks here, our hot water use isn't really all that high.
    It would likely end up at 50-60 cents per day on average.
    Way better than $2 and rising.

    It would be nice to be able to turn of the oil burner all summer..
    (for the whole 46 days LOL!).


    Anyways, before I make any decisions on spending, I'll have to see what's
    involved in the DIY route. Using the Sanyo & outside air might be a better way to go,
    especially during the warmer months.
    Pumping the heat out of warm summer air is super economical. 8)
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  • SteveK
    SteveK Solar Expert Posts: 387 ✭✭
    #50
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    Yes Rich, I'll stay tuned for more of your DIY system as it develops. Very interesting it is. I must admit my limited knowledge in this area at the design end. You are a brave soul...:cool:

    You're right about the summer heat and it is attractive. So attractive that I entertained a diverter idea I had for redirecting the inlet air to the Geyser from outside. That would mean a large savings I'm sure. But when I researched the cost of running a dehumidifier in the basement in addition to the Geyser (drawing summer air into it) it was best to allow the Geyser to do the dehumidification.

    I also thought of directing the outlet air to the living space upstairs (A/C) but I could see the musty smell being a problem with the family. Not with me however because I am" big strong man"....LOL

    You could take a spin up to Nyle. They are located next door to Acadia National Park in Maine. A wonderful place to see and enjoy to make the trip even more worthwhile. Nyle are great people. You can tour the floor there and drive away with the unit if you choose.

    Good Luck!!
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #51
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    If anyone is still interested, I found a low cost AirTap A7 on Ebay. It's somewhat similar to Geyser, but the cost was much less.
    http://ecorenovator.org/forum/geothermal-heat-pumps/2286-a7-airtap-install-ashp-hot-water-heater.html

    As to the risk of R22 getting into the water, I wonder if the Geyser has a double-wall heat exchanger? If it does, that would be the safer way to go..

    The A7 was a pretty easy DIY install, and I'm seeing pretty good performance so far (it's mid summer of course).. 8)

    Cheers,
    Rich
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  • n3qik
    n3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    #52
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    Geyser is double walled.

    Attachment not found.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #53
    Re: electric hybrid waterheaters

    That's why there's no UL label.. Humm, should have checked out the specs a little better.. :blush:
    http://www.refrigerants.com/msds/r22.pdf

    R-22 doesn't look too dangerous. But, I wonder what's going to happen if the T&P stays closed?? (If a leak occurs inside my tank).?.
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