C60 issues/replacement

Photowhit
Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have a PC250 charge controller, it carries the Pulse Energy name but is the same as the Trace version, the integrated charge controller is a C60 and has had issues in the past. I couldn't get it to reset into auto equalising mode last spring, though after a few tries I was able to last fall.

Currently It is having problems holding a bulk charge current with the sun popping in and out of the clouds. I can sit in from reading the voltage off of the inverter and it walks up from 28.6 to over 31.5 triggering the inverters high voltage disconnect. in about a minute(I watched it today)

I should state that the batteries are 5 years old are minimal for the system(4 - 6v GC batts in series)and have a hard life and a reduced capacity at this point.

First question is does this sound like a charge controller problem? It's been setup and running for over 3 years now the inverter was swapped out about 2 years ago(just upgrade) Could the minimal capacity of the batteries not give the CC a chance to limit the voltage? unlikely IMHO.

Any one know if the C60 CC board is available? I think they are built into other devices as well.

So I'd rather replace the charge controller, my peak energy use is in the summer when a MPPT CC wouldn't have huge advantages.

The Power Center has breakers for the solar array and for the battery bank, it has an input for an addional CC so introducing another isn't a problem, though my Electrical cabinet will be tight for an additional charge controller, I had intended to add the rouge to test out panels and play as it's not UL listed. (it would not handle the whole array regaurdless)

As to the array it is configured as 4 sets of 2 panels in series for 230 watts 17.4 vmp and 2 single panels of 170watts 34.8 vmp. I did this intending to match the VMP to run into a single MPPT charge controller. I have read here that the amps of the panels should match as well, and I really don't understand that but haven't been looking for an MPPT controller yet.

SO any Ideas?

I may call NAWS in the morning and see if a board is available.
Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
- Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.

Comments

  • mikeo
    mikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement
    I have a PC250 charge controller, it carries the Pulse Energy name but is the same as the Trace version
    
    I just replaced one this past week for my neighbors system. I took out the 48 volt 60 amp pulse energy controller and wired in a Xantrex mppt-60 in its place so it is setting unused under his house. I could check to see if he wants to sell it. When I took it out it seemed to be working OK, I did not remove the secondary board that has the idiot light display that is mounted to the wiring panel. For his system, he really can benefit with the MPPT controller.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: C60 issues/replacement

    The volts (Vmp) should match (within 10%) for parallel connected devices... You don't want a Vmp=35 volts in parallel with another panel with Vmp=17.5 volts in parallel... On a 24 volt battery bank, the 17.5 volt panel will drive zero current into the battery bank. The current between parallel connected panels does not affect the power output--the currents simply add up to Imp Total.

    And the amps (Imp) should match (again within 10%) for series connected devices... For series connected panel, the string current will (roughly) be limited by the Imp of the panel with the lowest Imp... Put an 8 amp panel in series with a 2 amp panel--and you will get only 2 amps out of that string.

    If you have more than one series string to put in parallel (a 1x 24 volt panel string is still a string)... Then the Vmp of the entire strings should add up to within 10% of each other (1x 35 Vmp panel plus a 2x 17.5 Vmp panel string in parallel at Vmp=35 volts).

    The 31.5 volts Vbatt is within the range that some battery manufacturers call out for equalization (up to 15.5 volts I have seen). There should be no reason for the controller to overshoot by that amount if it is set for 29 volts or so bulk/absorb charging unless it is equalizing. If it is doing things you don't want it to do/or not doing them when you need it done--you are probably right in looking to replace it.

    I have nothing to add other than the C60 has certainly been out there for many years and has performed the job you needed--Certainly for the price, not a bad investment.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement
    mikeo wrote: »
    took out the 48 volt 60 amp pulse energy controller .

    That sounds really neat!

    I suspect if it cam out of a PC250 it's the exact board, mine did say Pulse Energy on the board,...

    Mine is a 24 volt system the board has jumpers at the bottom for voltage configuration. I suspect the daughter boards are fine, though mine just has the yellow green LED version, I don't recall it being on a daughter board.

    Let me know, this might be really neat!

    Thanks,

    -Whit
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement

    So Bill, you think as I do, that a string of a single 170watt 24v and 34.8 and a string of 2 - 115watt 17.4v (for 34.8 volts at 230 watts) would work just fine? ie; that the amp match is just within strings?

    I guess, I miss understood what was being discussed in one of the MPPT disscusions. Won't be the last time...lol.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement

    Not to interfere with your thread. I have a PC 500 powercenter and lost the manual. Does anyone have a manual or can they tell me where to download one.?
    I have never used it and it looks a little complicated to me without a manual.
    Photowhit. I took out the charge controler out of my PC 500 befote I installed it on the wall. Everything is there including wireing fuses and is unused. I can send you an email with my offer. S:Dlarvic
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement

    Feel Free to PM Me, The manual for the PC250 is available on Line I think and speaks to the PC500, If your interested Or Mikeo I have the version with the genset breakers that I don't intend to ever use. I'll see if I can find you a link for the manual. be right back...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement

    Here's a lagacey Link;
    to the PC250 40 page manual

    This is a leagcy link, I had to search specifically for it, I guess there is no link on their website to this any longer. Once a long long time ago... They were both posted, but I down loaded the one I need, hence only know it's name, indeed if you swap out pc500 for pc250 it just takes you to the 2 pg ad.

    I did discover the charge controllers are the same... It's past my bed time talk with you guys Tuesday evening.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: C60 issues/replacement
    Photowhit wrote: »
    So Bill, you think as I do, that a string of a single 170watt 24v and Vmp=34.8? and a string of 2 - 115watt Vmp=17.4v? (for 34.8 volts at 230 watts) would work just fine? ie; that the amp match is just within strings?

    I guess, I miss understood what was being discussed in one of the MPPT discussions. Won't be the last time...lol.
    Assuming what I marked as Vmp=is correct--then there is no problem at all...

    Regarding the MPPT and PWM discussions--the controllers behave differently and it is easy to get them confused as to what is important in which mode...

    For your PWM system--basically as long as the lowest Vmp>Vbatt+2 volts or so--it is fine. One string with higher Vmp is not going to change anything with a PWM controller (as long as Voc Cold is correct for the controller). Obviously, having too high of Vmp in a PWM string is just a waste of energy (and money):
    • P=V*I=(Vbatt + 2 volts) * Imp (strings) = PWM power into battery
    • P= Vmp * Imp = MPPT Power into battery
    To put the MPPT vs PWM power into battery into a simple equation:
    • If Vmp ~ Vbatt+2 volts == then there is not much difference in power
    • If Vmp>>Vbatt + 2 volts == then a MPPT controller will provide much more power into battery.
    Most times it is easier to just the specifics of one setup/project than to try and generalize--it get deep fast.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement
    BB. wrote: »
    Most times it is easier to just the specifics of one setup/project than to try and generalize,,,

    Yep, even here where 2 volts greater, in a 24 volt system represents a modest change, in a 48v a minimal change....

    My understanding is fine, I didn't argue the point while collecting information about mppt controllers as I was just learning, even a reason for the rogue CC, to check out what I felt was false reasoning. It might have been presented in a different forum, just a scap of information stored that never made sense to me, and now corrected.

    BTW - the reasoning as to the value of MPPT charge controller in this situation is the reduced VMP in the heat of summer, my time of greatest need (I could and have lived off of 200 watt array for most of winter) Though my panels are free standing hence not as suseptable to the heat gain of roof mounted so perhaps after some playing with the rogue, I'll find it worth the investment.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement
    Photowhit wrote: »
    Photowit, I can,t get that website to open up for me. Thanks S:Dlarvic
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement

    Many Thanks to Victor, Mike, and Tom!!!

    What a great community! it appears that I have a replacement and a spare on the way shortly!

    I do have other Charge controllers but nothing that will handle all of my array, I live off grid and don't have other backups current (grid or genny) so the response is wonderful.

    If others want the PC500 manual I would be glad to send it out via Email if your having problems. It was found through Xantrex's support, searched for PC500, or maybe "trace PC500".
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement

    Thanks to Photowitt, I now have my PC 500 manual I have been looking for for some time. It is nice that we can help each other with the older obsolete stuff that still works and serves the purpose we need it for. S:Dlarvic
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: C60 issues/replacement
    solarvic wrote: »
    It is nice that we can help each other with the older obsolete stuff that still works and serves the purpose we need it for.
    Who/Whom are you calling "older obsolete stuff that still works and serves the purpose"?????

    -Bill :p
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement

    Ha Bill!
    I retireing first of may, Me be 65. I feel so obsolete that I decided ITS TIME. I am probably more obsolete than you. Hope they don,t steal all the money from medicare. Solarvic
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement

    Wanted to pass along that I recieved Solarvic/Victors TC60 yesterday, I butchered it last night and went ahead and installed it today. The board is configuration slightly differently, but even the cooling fins where the same so I could just unbolt the old and bolt in the new(ish).

    Though today was/is very cloudy it did at least light the array charging light. I need to hunt around and find my trimetric and see how it does, but it's off the a fine start!

    As to the old board, it has 2 obviously destroyed Mosfet "IRF2807", if I try to replace them will regular fux core soder be fine? or is this a silver soder for better temp resistance? Also these are mounted on, what I hope, is a temp transfering tape? my guess is I'll remove this when I replace them, though perhaps it'll still be fine? If I replace the tape, will termal paste be fine?

    Well more to learn. Thanks to every one, what a great community.

    -Whit
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: C60 issues/replacement
    Photowhit wrote: »
    Wanted to pass along that I recieved Solarvic/Victors TC60 yesterday, I butchered it last night and went ahead and installed it today. The board is configuration slightly differently, but even the cooling fins where the same so I could just unbolt the old and bolt in the new(ish).

    Though today was/is very cloudy it did at least light the array charging light. I need to hunt around and find my trimetric and see how it does, but it's off the a fine start!

    As to the old board, it has 2 obviously destroyed Mosfet "IRF2807", if I try to replace them will regular fux core soder be fine? or is this a silver soder for better temp resistance? Also these are mounted on, what I hope, is a temp transfering tape? my guess is I'll remove this when I replace them, though perhaps it'll still be fine? If I replace the tape, will termal paste be fine?

    Well more to learn. Thanks to every one, what a great community.

    -Whit

    Regular electronics rosin core solder is ok, silver solder is way too hot.

    The thermal tape on them is also likely electrical isolation too, there may be a little nylon insulating bushing when you remove the mounting screw/rivet
    If the tape is not being used for electrical isolation, then thermal paste would be OK to use.
    Mike
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,