Battery monitor

trumpets3utrumpets3u Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭✭
I want to add a battery monitor system I have about 700 ah of battery at 24v 832 w of solar with more coming, and a up coming wind generator I have a SW 4024 inverter, Outback charge controller. What would be the best to work with what I have.
Thanks Brian

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,015 admin
    Re: Battery monitor

    Outback has a "new" battery monitor--I don't know anything about it. It may offer some integration advantages with your Outback charge controller.

    Outback Power Flexnet-DC System Monitor

    Otherwise the Trimetric has good reviews here as the "low cost" Battery monitor.

    I like the programmable output of the Xantrex LinkLite/Pro models (not cheap).

    NAWS Battery Monitors

    -Boill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    Did you mean to say you have a SW 4024 inverter? I got something transposed today when I replyed to someones post. Solarvic
  • RWBRWB Solar Expert Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    I've used the Link Lite monitor before and I like its LED Display the best but the monitor has the ability to get off on its readings pretty easily which is a common problem for alot of people if you do a search on google about it.

    The Link Lite monitors did not work out for me but the Victron Battery Monitor has proved its self to be very accurate and reliable over the last 6 months.

    A feature that the Victron Battery Monitor is the Time To Go display that tells you the hours and mins you have left until the battery will need to be recharged. Everything is customizable and it actually has a relay signal output so you can trigger an alarm or battery charger to have it activate the output when the voltage or SOC drop to a programmed number and shuts off when the voltage or SOC reaches your other Setting.

    It has all the features the Link Lite Pro has plus the time to go feature.

    And last time I checked the Link Lite Pro has been discontinued, a few large resellers told me that.

    James Town Distributers has them for as cheap as your going to get from what I know.

    I've never used a Trimetric but the Victron is super small and logs the last 30 days of data or more also. I recommend it.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,015 admin
    Re: Battery monitor

    RWB,

    Link to Victron Battery Monitor website

    I am glad you found one and have had good experiences with. And another vendor with external alarm/control connection... I like! :D

    I will take some time and look through the documentation.

    Don't know about the Xantrex LinkPro/LinkLite status...

    Thank you,
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • RWBRWB Solar Expert Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    No problem BB.

    It took me some time to find the Victron Monitor and there is basicaly No info about it on the net other than the sales pages. It met all my needs and is super simple which was important for our end users. My goal was to make our LFP100 Portable System as easy to use and understand as possible and with this battery monitor we have achieved that.

    They just came out with a modem and data cable that will hook up to these battery monitors and will upload the data from the monitors and send it to you and to a website that actually logs the data all day long. The site is really cool too. Haven't messed with one of these yet but would like to.

    http://www.victronenergy.com/panel-systems-remote-monitoring/victron-global-remote/

    Check out the website that saves and displays the data that is transmitted from your system here https://vrm.victronenergy.com/

    Preview / Demo login
    Username: [email protected]
    Password: vrmdemo

    Pretty Cool Stuff!
  • trumpets3utrumpets3u Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    Thanks for your post. Now with 700 AH of batteries at 24V and will be adding what size shunt should I use 500A or a 1000A.
    Thanks Brian
  • blackswan555blackswan555 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    Do you use a generator ? or do you want it to control charge ?
    The Outback FNDC is also an advanced charge controller, it can count amps in and out and end of charge amps to terminate gen run/charge far more efficiently.
    (with additional equipment, do you have mate or hub now ? )

    Have a good one
    Tim
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,015 admin
    Re: Battery monitor

    Pick the shunt size based on your maximum peak charge/load current to/from the battery bank.

    A "smaller shunt" will be more accurate for smaller loads.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • trumpets3utrumpets3u Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    Ok, I'm learning here. On my inverter the highest load draw is 13 amps, is that what I go by? or the dc amps from the batteries to the inverter? If so how do you convert?
    Thanks Brian
  • mikeomikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor
    On my inverter the highest load draw is 13 amps, is that what I go by? or the dc amps from the batteries to the inverter? If so how do you convert?
    Actually you may need to pick a shunt size that matches what your battery monitor supports. With the Trimetric it is either 100 amp or 500 amp shunts. You would pick a shunt that is about 50% greater than the maximum current that your inverter or other loads could possibly pull from your battery bank. I use a 500 amp shunt with my 940 amp hour battery bank
  • RWBRWB Solar Expert Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    The Victron Battery Monitor comes with a 500A shunt and is very accurate with low Amp Current.

    Its recommend that you use a shunt that is 50% of your max discharge current.
  • RCinFLARCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    13 amps would be the 120 vac output. That is 1560 watts x 87% for inverter equals 1793 watts from battery. At 24 vdc that would be 75 amps.

    I would go with a 500 amp shunt because the SW4024 can draw up to about 200 amps at full load.
  • notsobrightnotsobright Solar Expert Posts: 247 ✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    hi everyone, Im intrested in these victron monitors but I havnt found the MSR ($) on them. roughly how much are they? specifically the BMV602S

    I was looking intensly at the LinkLites and thats the first Ive read anything about their accuracy drifting or them being discontinued.

    the link lites match up very nicely with my other instruments in dash panel so that was appealing too but I'll take accuracy and function over cosmetics.


    another question. if I get the BMV602 for dual battery use then I need two shunts (one for each battery) is this correct?


    thanks
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,015 admin
    Re: Battery monitor

    There is a where-to-buy on the Victron Website:

    www.victronenergy.com/where-to-buy/?continentid=1

    Price for the simpler model seems to be in the low $200 range (random web searches).

    Double check the "double meter" versions... I have not gone through the whole spec/user manual--but it may only measure the voltage of a second battery (like your starting battery)--other brands seem to have the option (second voltmeter) too.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • RWBRWB Solar Expert Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • machinemanmachineman Solar Expert Posts: 129 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    Possibly a dumb question.... Why would one need a battery monitor if the voltage and current draw are displayed by the inverter? Does the battery monitor track usage and decide what capacity remains?

    Off Grid Cabin, 24V 440ah 6V GC battery bank, Xantrex MPPT60-150 CC, Magnum MS4024 inverter-charger, >1200w Solar bank

  • RWBRWB Solar Expert Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor
    machineman wrote: »
    Possibly a dumb question.... Why would one need a battery monitor if the voltage and current draw are displayed by the inverter? Does the battery monitor track usage and decide what capacity remains?

    1.1 Victron Energy battery monitor basics
    The Precision Battery Monitor is a device that monitors your battery
    status. It constantly measures the battery voltage and battery current. It
    uses this information to calculate the actual state of charge of your
    battery.

    The BMV is also equipped with a potential free contact. This can be used
    to automatically start and stop a generator, or signal alarm conditions.

    1.2 Why should I monitor my battery?

    Batteries are used in a wide variety of applications, mostly to store energy
    for later use. But how do you know how much energy is stored in your
    battery? No one can tell by just looking at it.

    Battery technology is often oversimplified, but some basic battery
    knowledge and good monitoring is essential if you want to enjoy
    maximum life from your expensive batteries. The lifetime of batteries
    depends on many factors. Battery life gets reduced by under-charging,
    over-charging, excessively deep discharges, discharges which go too
    fast, and a too high ambient temperature. By monitoring your battery with
    an advanced battery monitor like the BMV, important feedback is given to
    the user so that remedial measures can be taken when necessary. This
    way, by extending the battery life, the BMV will quickly pay for itself.
  • dsp3930dsp3930 Solar Expert Posts: 66 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    The Xantrex XW inverter shows this information "roughly" on the SCP panel -- not sure about the SW series. The catch is that it is not entirely the whole truth. The Xantrex XW series in current code revisions on small arrays cycles the power to/from the batteries. When in sell mode, it actually sends some in and then takes some out. The SCP just shows the net amps, but a battery meter will show it going from +(some amps into the batteries) to -(some amps out from the batteries). The trimetric also shows how many amp hours have been estimated to have been consumed adjusted for how many it thinks were put back in. (Along with a bunch of other neat items)
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,015 admin
    Re: Battery monitor
    machineman wrote: »
    Does the battery monitor track usage and decide what capacity remains?
    The shunt is tied to the negative terminal of the battery bank... So it measures all current (times Hours) flowing into and out of the battery bank.

    The other devices--usually do not. The charge controller only measures its output current. The Inverter only measures its input current.

    On an integrated system (like the XW), it may offer the ability to add up the various sources (I would have to read the manual). Other devices like the FM xx series from Outback have an optional add-on that also puts a shunt on the battery.

    They are not perfect--they are sort of like measuring your fuel tank level by monitoring the fuel flow into and out of the tank.

    Batteries are not perfect--and aging reduces their capacity. The battery monitors pretty much reset to 100% when they determine the charging voltage is high and the charging current is low.

    It is an approximation--but much easier and quicker to use vs resting voltage or measuring specific gravity. And for Sealed/AGM's -- you cannot even measure SG.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor
    machineman wrote: »
    ..... Does the battery monitor track usage and decide what capacity remains?


    Yep. you program it with your system specs, and it plays the part of "fuel gauge".
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • notsobrightnotsobright Solar Expert Posts: 247 ✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    thanks for the links guys.

    Yes, judging by the install manual the second battery negative is not seperate from chassis/earth ground so I think you are right that it may only measure voltage on the second battery. if thats the case would you need two main units or only an extra shunt for total monitoring? I want to be able to completely monitor two isolated batteries an not just volateg on the second. Ive called victron but got answering service, waiting on call back to clairify.
  • RWBRWB Solar Expert Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor
    thanks for the links guys.

    Yes, judging by the install manual the second battery negative is not seperate from chassis/earth ground so I think you are right that it may only measure voltage on the second battery. if thats the case would you need two main units or only an extra shunt for total monitoring? I want to be able to completely monitor two isolated batteries an not just volateg on the second. Ive called victron but got answering service, waiting on call back to clairify.

    Yes your going to need 2 units to measure the SOC on each separate battery bank. 1 Victron Battery Monitor only monitors the State Of Charge on 1 battery bank and the voltage on your starter battery.

    So if you want to monitor 2 different banks you will need 2 Victron Battery Monitors. I'm pretty sure its the same for all of these type units in this price range.
  • JamesJames Solar Expert Posts: 248 ✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor

    I believe you should determine shunt rating based on load/draw amps from batteries to inverter, since that is where you normally place the shunt in the circuit.
    Others please correct me if I am wrong... thanks
  • KamalaKamala Solar Expert Posts: 452 ✭✭
    Re: Battery monitor
    James wrote: »
    I believe you should determine shunt rating based on load/draw amps from batteries to inverter, since that is where you normally place the shunt in the circuit.
    Others please correct me if I am wrong... thanks

    From batteries to everything! One side of shunt goes to negative battery terminal. Other side of shunt "becomes" negative battery terminal.
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