Honda 2000i question

notsobrightnotsobright Solar Expert Posts: 247 ✭✭
I see that the Honda 2000i generator has both AC and DC outputs.

does anyone know if while running a battery charger off the AC side is the 12vdc output still full output?

just wondering if I could use both AC and DC output at the same time to charge a battery and if that would get more charge for the same amount of fuel.


thanks

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,511 admin
    Re: Honda 2000i question
    does anyone know if while running a battery charger off the AC side is the 12vdc output still full output?
    From the manual, the 12 volt coil is separate--so it would not appear to be current limited.
    just wondering if I could use both AC and DC output at the same time to charge a battery and if that would get more charge for the same amount of fuel.
    The 12 volt output is only "capable of charging a battery" at full engine speed (ECO throttle off).

    It is unregulated, and not very much current. 12 volts * 8 amps = 96 watts.

    In general, I would guess that, at best, the 96 watt load will simply use up 96 watts worth of fuel (not a bad thing--but not free).

    And, if you have to run the genset at full speed--then you lose the fuel economy at lighter loads (typically happens as battery approaches full charge and current demand falls)...

    Your best bet is a good charger matched to generator/battery bank requirements and ECO throttle on.

    I would only use the 12 volt output if nothing else is handy (such as running your campsite AC loads and need to charge your car/RV starting battery).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question

    I think not. somewhere, in the paperwork, as you pull from one, it decreases the power on the other. Get a good charger to dump 1400Watts into your batteries. Iota comes to mind, and some of the Trace/Xantrex.
    If just 12V - I like the multi-purpose Vector/Black-Decker VEC1093 charger http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-VEC1093DBD-Battery-Charger/dp/B000EJQJ1G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1268076068&sr=1-3 Adjustable amps, EQ, Flooded/Gell/AGM, and even de-sulphate if you belive in that religion.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question
    I see that the Honda 2000i generator has both AC and DC outputs.

    does anyone know if while running a battery charger off the AC side is the 12vdc output still full output?

    just wondering if I could use both AC and DC output at the same time to charge a battery and if that would get more charge for the same amount of fuel.


    thanks

    Mine has a warning label on the generator telling you specifically not to do this. I suspect it may be due to the potential to over-tax the engine if both AC and DC windings are fully loaded.
  • RCinFLARCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question

    Somewhere it probably says not to exceed total power capability between two outputs but 100 watts for 12v charging does not amount to much against a 1600 watt total capability.
  • notsobrightnotsobright Solar Expert Posts: 247 ✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question

    as allways, good info!

    mike90045, the B&D vector charger is nice, I recently bought one and have allready reconditioned two old car batteries with it. both of them now have a significantly higher resting voltage than before. Im glad I decided in favor of this unit over the IOTA and similar ones now. seems to be a much better value with more features and lower price. also has a 5 year warranty (more than double anything else I looked at)

    the 2000i seems to be the best unit for my needs but its so expensive! I have several other Hondas and I know they are worth a premium. except for one I have allways bought them secondhand. I havnt run accross any 2000i secondhand yet though.

    thanks.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question
    as allways, good info!

    mike90045, the B&D vector charger is nice, I recently bought one and have allready reconditioned two old car batteries with it. both of them now have a significantly higher resting voltage than before. Im glad I decided in favor of this unit over the IOTA and similar ones now. seems to be a much better value with more features and lower price. also has a 5 year warranty (more than double anything else I looked at)

    the 2000i seems to be the best unit for my needs but its so expensive! I have several other Hondas and I know they are worth a premium. except for one I have allways bought them secondhand. I havnt run accross any 2000i secondhand yet though.

    thanks.

    I'm not surprised you can't find a used one. I wouldn't trade mine for a big clock!
    Keep in mind that my old Honda 1000 has so many hours on it (probably 6,000 by now) I've lost track, and it still works. Total maintenance has been regular oil changes and a couple of spark plugs. That is what you are paying for: dependable, long-lasting power. There are Chinese made knock-off of Hondas available for cheap. I don't have one of those, but my one Chinese engine makes a lot of noise and probably won't last long. My old B&S power 5kW unit hads a toasted engine at 1000 hours. My ancient 3kW Onan still runs even with the leaking spark plug hole. It cost a fortune new, but it's forty years old now. Sometimes you do get what you pay for.
  • Just MeJust Me Solar Expert Posts: 48
    Re: Honda 2000i question

    I just checked my Yamaha EF2000is and there is nothing on the case saying not to use both at the same time. Just says Battery Charge Only 12V8A. I don't remember reading it in the manual either.
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question
    the B&D vector charger is nice, I recently bought one and have allready reconditioned two old car batteries with it. both of them now have a significantly higher resting voltage than before

    I see quite a few people on the reviews on the Amazon page who seem to have brought batteries back from the dead with this charger and its "recondition" mode.

    I could probably find out by doing research, but I wanted to raise the question here:

    What *specifically* is happening when that charger "reconditions" a battery??

    Is it a desulphate? An equalize? Both?
  • bryanlbryanl Solar Expert Posts: 175 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question

    Reconditioning a battery usually involves charging with a superimposed AC/RF signal that attacks suflate crystals. This technique got its big start in Home Power magazine about ten years ago. BatteryMinder has some informative articles about it in selling their product. There are some homebrew websites around as well.

    The DC output from the genset is at a fairly low voltage as far as charging is concerned. If you have a decent charger that provides bulk at 14.4 and then absorption phases, the genset won't be provide much if any current because it can't compete voltage wise, at least until you are nearly through the absorption phase.

    The question becomes, what does your genset do when its DC output is exposed to voltages higher than it provides? It should be protected but best practice is to not test protections by leaving it disconnected and just using a proper battery charger.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question
    bryanl wrote: »
    ....

    The DC output from the genset is at a fairly low voltage as far as charging is concerned. If you have a decent charger that provides bulk at 14.4 and then absorption phases, the genset won't be provide much if any current because it can't compete voltage wise, at least until you are nearly through the absorption phase.

    The question becomes, what does your genset do when its DC output is exposed to voltages higher than it provides? It should be protected but best practice is to not test protections by leaving it disconnected and just using a proper battery charger.

    I think DWH is talking about using the generator's AC output to power the the B&D battery charger in the re-condition mode - and not using the DC output.
    The other fact, is that in re-condition mode, the charger is not delivering many amps to the battery, and will be a light load on the genset, so you will be burning a lot of fuel for the 200W of power consumed.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question
    mike90045 wrote: »
    I think DWH is talking about using the generator's AC output to power the the B&D battery charger in the re-condition mode

    Actually, I wasn't referring to the AC source at all. My question was quite specific, i.e., what exactly is that particular charger *doing* when it says it is "reconditioning" a battery?
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question
    dwh wrote: »
    Actually, I wasn't referring to the AC source at all. My question was quite specific, i.e., what exactly is that particular charger *doing* when it says it is "reconditioning" a battery?

    You mean
    If just 12V - I like the multi-purpose Vector/Black-Decker VEC1093 charger

    I suspect it feeds a float voltage, and mixes a high Freq (1ooKHz?) waveform pulse onto it. it's a 24hr cycle. I'll hook it up to my kill-a-watt and try try it tonight - see what's happening.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question

    Black&Decker VEC1093 charger mini report

    1) my battery was full, so I was only able to charge at the 4a rate for a minute before it tapered off


    2) readout was 4.2A DC, KillAWatt read 76Watts .6 PF

    3) De-sulphate mode
    KillAWatt read: 10Watts .35 PF 25VA 120V .21A

    the de-sulphate mode has a 24 hour timer on it, so it should shut off to just a watt or 2 after it finishes.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question

    Thanks for checking it out Mike. The desulfating I can see, but I guess I was mostly wondering if it was doing anything other than that.

    I.e., if it was doing an equalize, then that would not be good for AGM.

    If all it does is desulfate and float then it shouldn't hurt AGMs - but I'm suspicious of how well that process can "recondition" a battery.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Honda 2000i question
    dwh wrote: »

    If all it does is desulfate and float then it shouldn't hurt AGMs - but I'm suspicious of how well that process can "recondition" a battery.

    It can eq, but needs to be in a special mode, and poke a reassessed button with a toothpick to initiate EQ. look up the part # on Amazon
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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