My Energy Conservation project

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  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: My Energy Conservation project

    I can see where this would be quite useful for heat-reflection.
    But, would it not reflect heat on to solar panels and reduce their output?
    What exactly is the best roofing set-up to reduce panel heat, other than 6" of air gap?
    There are so many different roofing materials and colours ...
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: My Energy Conservation project

    The OP was looking for a solution for insulating a basement.

    T
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: My Energy Conservation project
    icarus wrote: »
    The OP was looking for a solution for insulating a basement.

    T

    See how one thing leads to another? I'd recommend the 'pink' foam panels for that: approx. R5 per inch.

    Now I'll just go sit quietly in the corner. :blush:
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: My Energy Conservation project
    icarus wrote: »
    The OP was looking for a solution for insulating a basement.

    T

    I know. Hy-Tech does make a product for concrete. I think I saw that Thermal-Coat did as well.

    http://www.hytechsales.com/prod1000.html

    And while it may seem counter-intuitive that this stuff will insulate - to me it's not. Reflectivity of course, that's obvious - but vacuum filled glass beads mixed in with paint or some other coating must surely have some fairly noticeable conductive insulation properties.

    Anyway, the stuff can be had in raw "powder-like" form and is inert, so it can be mixed with pretty much any paint or coating.

    Thinking back on it, while I was too ignorant to ask the right questions at the time, I think that perhaps that homeowner I mentioned must have done something like that. I.e., mixed the raw stuff with a rubber roofing compound or some such.

    Which might not be a bad way to go in a basement - get a good sealer - like this:

    http://www.aquasealusa.com/

    and mix in the raw ceramic before applying it.

    Which is pretty much what I think that Hy-Tech "Insul Flex" product must be.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: My Energy Conservation project
    See how one thing leads to another? I'd recommend the 'pink' foam panels for that: approx. R5 per inch.

    Now I'll just go sit quietly in the corner. :blush:

    Truth be told,, Ole was talking about his own energy conservation project,, and It was one of us that started up this side track. Often times we learn way more on the back roads!

    T
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: My Energy Conservation project

    "And while it may seem counter-intuitive that this stuff will insulate - to me it's not. Reflectivity of course, that's obvious - but vacuum filled glass beads mixed in with paint or some other coating must surely have some fairly noticeable conductive insulation properties."

    dwh,
    a thin coating would have so very little conductive r factors going for it that it would not be worth it as such a conductive insulator. yes those vacuum beads would be good if in sufficient thicknesses. insulative foam boards are on the same line of thinking except they contain small bubbles of air. heat still can conduct around the physical surface regardless if it's a vacuum or air.
    to mix the vacuum beads into a rubber roofing compound will not allow for reflectivity and will add far too little insulation to be worth a darn as the heat will conduct through the rubber compound suspending the beads. better to just get an insulation board and rubber coat it than to mix it in the rubber compound.

    if i'm off the mark here with the thread i apologize as i haven't followed it through from the beginning, but threw my 2 cents in even if devalued.;):p
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    Re: My Energy Conservation project

    Thanks for all the informative post guys!

    I called a company today that are experts on insulation and they told me that it was probably not a good idea to insulate this room on the inside. I would have to add insulation on the outside. Since our basement is below ground this is a very expensive task. There might be some insulation as well for what I know. I have to wait until August to find out because the people that built the house ( in 1998 ) are on holiday.

    On Sunday I will also go on holiday for two weeks with no Internet connection.

    Ole
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: My Energy Conservation project
    niel wrote: »
    dwh,
    a thin coating would have so very little conductive r factors going for it that it would not be worth it as such a conductive insulator.

    I don't think that's what this document says:

    http://www.icslinings.com/pdf/Skin%20Temperature%20Tests%20on%20TC%20Ceramic.pdf

    After all, these products aren't sold just for roofs, they are also used on pipes and ducts and such. Here's a label from one such:

    http://www.tri-chem.com/download/thermo-coat-label.pdf


    "Recommended for:
    Roofs
    Walls
    Coolers
    Refrigerated Trailers
    Steam Traps
    Boiler Fire Doors
    Air Conditioning Units
    Freight Cars
    Steam Lines"
    (emphasis added)


    EDIT: Here's a video showing temp diff on a hot pipe:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XByG7KNfhNY&feature=related


    Dade County, FL independent test:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNZiL5-uT8k&feature=channel
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: My Energy Conservation project

    that's exactly what that document says for time is involved in determining r factors and they give a time of 5 seconds whereas most insulations are referenced to 1hr. i can imagine what the transfered heat would be after an hour of time.
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: My Energy Conservation project

    The five seconds is the testing standard they used for burning skin.

    "ASTM Test Standard C1055 defines the “safe” or “acceptable” heated surface
    temperature (in industrial applications). This considers the effect on the skin that takes place within a five (5) second contact exposure interval."


    The tables show what thickness of the material was required to reduce various temperatures to a level where it won't burn skin.
  • DabblerDabbler Registered Users Posts: 22
    Re: My Energy Conservation project

    Hello Ole,

    I applaud your efforts to conserve power!

    Although I am fascinated by solar power and persue it, I also follow the advice of many great minds in this forum that suggest: "It's easier to save a watt, than to make one".

    I have been incrementally measuring, experimenting, and making changes to reduce my consumption, as you have. I'm embarrased at the power I used to use, and still trying to reduce.

    Making progress. In the event that it's interesting to you, here's a plot of of my average KWH per day, taken from the bill, for the past decade of monthly bills.

    Power%20usage%20%20average%20KWH%20per%20Day.jpg

    Regards,
    Tom

    p.s. maybe someone can advise me on a better way to include images, as Ole has.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: My Energy Conservation project
    Dabbler wrote: »
    p.s. maybe someone can advise me on a better way to include images, as Ole has.

    hey , it looked good to me, as long as the hosting site stays up
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
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