PG&E does not want new connections

mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,089 ✭✭✭✭✭
Well, property is in escrow, and PG&E wants $56K to run service from the street, 3,000' down a driveway. Maybe $7K less, if they can space the poles out a bit more - skipping one pole, since it's an easy run.

Lets see, inverter, panels, controller..... Hey - all that's a little less than 56K, and I haven't even thought of a rebate.

I guess the Grid-Tie decision has been made for me.

notes:
Max 240V run 375'
Run 12KV on poles to final pole, transformer to 240V, meter mount on wall.
(they like to come on the property monthly, no remote read meters)
Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,156 admin
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    Interesting Mike!

    At least we have one data point for California--$100,000 per mile of utility power on pole.

    Did they include any other information on costs (kWhr costs, any special monthly fees, minimum billing requirements)?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    Nice to know utilities are encouraging the switch to solar power like this. :roll:
  • PhilSPhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    I must credit PG&E with responsibility for our journey down the solar pathway.

    Back in the late seventies they wanted $8000 to bring in power.

    I guestimate that I've spent twice that over the years, probably more, and use less power than the vast majority of citizens.

    And now I wouldn't have it any other way. :p

    Phil
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    me, i'm just amazed somebody has a 3000ft driveway.:confused: no wonder why they think you can afford it.:p
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,089 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections
    niel wrote: »
    me, i'm just amazed somebody has a 3000ft driveway.:confused: no wonder why they think you can afford it.:p

    Cheap rural acreage, nestled in the corner bend of a highway on 2 sides, actually another 2000' to the house site - to get away from the road noise. I think I'll be rude to the PG&E guy when he calls me back today, but not too rude. As to affording it, I may have a solar power yurt as my house.

    But there is a site that looks like it has good wind power on a ridge.... I may throw up an air 403 or the like, to monitor for a year and see what is there. No hydro possibilities, unless I tap the salmon for power..
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    3000' for a drive,,, Geeze,,, mine is 30 km,,, and that only gets me to the lake shore!

    Tony
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    now was that a 30km driveway or dirt path? in any case you guys are rich as i don't even have one.:grr:D:p
    on the bright side, my house is more like that famous house called fallingwater as i have water streaming a few feet under my home.:roll:
  • BrockBrock Solar Expert Posts: 633 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    My understanding of current rebates is that they are all for grid tied systems. In Wisconsin you can't have batteries in the system anywhere, it has to be batteryless. So for me I would ahve to get a second inverter and panels to qualify and can't use the existing xantrex 6048 grid tie inverter.
    3kw solar PV, 8 L16's, xw 5548, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Leaf EV, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections
    niel wrote: »
    now was that a 30km driveway or dirt path? in any case you guys are rich as i don't even have one.:grr:D:p
    on the bright side, my house is more like that famous house called fallingwater as i have water streaming a few feet under my home.:roll:


    Abandoned logging road,, not really much more than a dirt track. Better suited for a ATV than a car,,, but I get in and out with a Subaru fairly easily. We have ~ 6 users, every few years we borrow a cat or a grader and a loader and grade and fill the worst of the holes. We like it rough,,, keeps out the riff raff. (Sort of)

    Tony
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,089 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    Well, Got the beginnings of a plan and have some questions for the group mind.

    First, this is to provide bare bones power for a shop, the first permitted structure on the property, and a couple of (0.5HP) pumps for gravity feed water tanks, Ozone generator (55W) to make potable water. Eventually, more PV's on pole mounts will go up, and a 2nd XW inverter in a couple years.

    I know my battery bank is on the light side, but other than 55W ozonator , and a small light, no overnight loads. Most shop loads will be daytime, when PV is up, and likely only 1 saw at a time (I've not figured out how to run the table saw and weld at the same time!)


    Q's


    1) The XANBUS data link, uses plain Cat5 ethernet cable ??

    2) Inverter output spec : 100A for 10 sec (useful for motor starting) needs breakers that handle that, w/o nuisance trip (XW6048)

    3) XW6048 (Inverter) has 2 separate AC inputs, one for 60.00Hz Grid, other for 55-65Hz generator. Critical these are connected to the right point.

    [ 4) Iota charger, is a 15A charger, likely needs a 20A / 60VDC fuse, not 15A shown ]

    5) Lighting protection / surge arrestors I think at a minimum, a protector at the PV combiner box at the array pole.

    6) Grounding Varies on inspector. Do we tie PV array ground to the other ground? Does battery (-) get tied to Gnd? GF device may be in XW6048, I'll try to read on-line manual and see.

    Mike

    --

    Mods - anyway to update this restriction, PDF's are generally not that small:

    Powerplan-3b.pdf: Your file of 72.7 KB bytes exceeds the forum's limit of 19.5 KB for this filetype.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • jeffkrusejeffkruse Solar Expert Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    On the inverter L1, L2, N - That is the output of the inverter. Your genset is connected to that in the schematic. I dont think you want this. On the Xantrex there is an output, line-in for grid, and an input for a generator I think.

    I see that you have a 100A 125VDC breaker on Bat+ of the CC. I think this normaly comes in 80Amps or 63Amps, I cant recall. Take a look at the midnite solar web page. It's has the document for their Epanel.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,089 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections
    jeffkruse wrote: »
    On the inverter L1, L2, N - That is the output of the inverter. Your genset is connected to that in the schematic. I dont think you want this. On the Xantrex there is an output, line-in for grid, and an input for a generator I think.

    I see that you have a 100A 125VDC breaker on Bat+ of the CC. I think this normaly comes in 80Amps or 63Amps, I cant recall. Take a look at the midnite solar web page. It's has the document for their Epanel.

    A fiend :) drew the schematic up, he did not know all the features of the XW and thanks for the hint on the midnight panel. I was going ot hold off on breakers, till I got hard copy manuals, too many of the web PDFs are full of fuzzy graphics.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • jeffkrusejeffkruse Solar Expert Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    The midnite documentation is good. http://www.midnitesolar.com/documentsA.php?menuItem=documents&docCat_ID=6&docCatName=Manuals

    I did not use the grid in or gen in on the Xantrex ;) for my install. I just wanted to point out that you DO NOT want to connect your gen to the output of the Xantrex.:D
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    1) The XANBUS data link, uses plain Cat5 ethernet cable ??
    Yes
    2) Inverter output spec : 100A for 10 sec (useful for motor starting) needs breakers that handle that, w/o nuisance trip (XW604
    I use the XW panel because if there is an inspector they like to hear that everything is from the same manufacturer. Your mileage may vary.
    3) XW6048 (Inverter) has 2 separate AC inputs, one for 60.00Hz Grid, other for 55-65Hz generator. Critical these are connected to the right point.yea what do you mean

    [ 4) Iota charger, is a 15A charger, likely needs a 20A / 60VDC fuse, not 15A shown ]

    5) Lighting protection / surge arrestors I think at a minimum, a protector at the PV combiner box at the array pole.

    6) Grounding Varies on inspector. Do we tie PV array ground to the other ground? Does battery (-) get tied to Gnd? GF device may be in XW6048, I'll try to read on-line manual and see.
    Yes always for inspection! (-) battery connects one place only in the XWCC
    Dave
    Mike
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,413 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections
    mike90045 wrote: »
    Lets see, inverter, panels, controller..... Hey - all that's a little less than 56K, and I haven't even thought of a rebate.

    I don't know if there are any rebates without grid ties but if installed to code the 30% tax credit should be doable!!!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • soloronesolorone Solar Expert Posts: 255 ✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections

    I would never discourage anyone form going off grid. I had a very wealthy guy come to me posing as a customer, he picked my brain got all the date together and then went in and beat the power company over the head with it. In the end they cut him a good deal and on top of it all buried the line. Might be worth a try, if nothing else just to probe their reaction and stand on the solar issue.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: PG&E does not want new connections
    solorone wrote: »
    I would never discourage anyone form going off grid. I had a very wealthy guy come to me posing as a customer, he picked my brain got all the date together and then went in and beat the power company over the head with it. In the end they cut him a good deal and on top of it all buried the line. Might be worth a try, if nothing else just to probe their reaction and stand on the solar issue.

    That might work in Georgia but I do not think that our utility PG &E is thinking past where the next place is they can pull over and take a nap.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

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