Suggestions for a new generator

pabloesguapo

Well, the old nag finally croaked.  Generac Ecogen 6kw, propane, 2 phase.

The only generator repairman for 100 miles recommend upgrading to a 15kw ecogen.  Currently, I'm leery of Generac.  Any suggestions on other generators (or even another generac, I guess) that will work with my other listed equipment, that are rated and approved for off grid backup/battery charging use?  

mike95490

Generac has no warranty for off grid installations, as I recall someone else bemoaning.

Vic

IIRC,   one of the target markets for the Generac Ecogen gensets,   WAS,  Off Grid.

From  one Link in searching for "Generac Ecogen",  yields,  this  'Generac's EcoGen home generators are designed for homeowners who live off-grid or with alternative power systems'

Looked at the Warranty for Ecogen gensets,   and see NO Limitation,  or Exclusions for off-grid use.

pablo,   May we ask,   about how many hours of use do you have on that Generac?
Has it been serviced regularly?

These are air-cooled engines on these gensets,   so,  they have some limitations  ...

FWIW, Vic

BB.

(note: at the end of this post is a link to Generac for their EcoGen sets that are sold specifically into the off grid market--If you want to skip the first part of my post here... -Bill)

Kohler was known for their "off grid" exclutions (from 10 year old thread):

https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/6637/propane-generator-warranty-for-off-grid-application

Going through a Generac 5 year warranty (don't know if current or older version--Dated 9/2015?):

https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/content/all-products/generators/resi-comm/0l0258-rev-e.pdf

11. Units sold, rated or used for "Prime Power", "Trailer Mounted" or"Rental Unit" applications as defined by Generac. Contact anAuthorized Generac Service Dealer for definitions
Looking around, and one company does not support "ecogen" as a model eligible for a 7 year warranty:

https://www.norwall.com/products/7-Year-Extended-Warranty-for-Generac-Guardian-Air-Cooled-Standby-Generators/

The PowerPact, EcoGen and Synergy are not eligible for extended warranty.

A generac 10 year warranty:

https://www.norwall.com/product_pdfs/9038_DEW_10yr_warr_1_2018.pdf (9/2017 dated?)

Page 1

Generac Power Systems 10 Year (10C) Limited Warranty Extension for Residential andCommercial Standby GeneratorsGenerac and purchaser hereby amend (“Amendment”) the term of the original warranty for the generator (“Original Warranty”) from the term originallystated in the Original Warranty to a term of ten (10) years or two-thousand (2,000) hours (“Term Extension”), whichever occurs first. If purchaser’s OriginalWarranty had already expired, this Amendment revives the Original Warranty and replaces its term with the Term Extension. This Amendment alsoamends warranty coverage in the Original Warranty to the coverage listed below from years 1-10 (“Coverage Extension”). The Coverage Extension shallnot retroactively apply to cover any warranty work performed before the date of the Amendment. For clarity purposes only, the amended warranty is statedbelow in full.For the period of warranty noted below, which begins (or began, whichever applicable) upon the successful start-up and/or on-line activation of the unit, Gen-erac Power Systems, Inc. (Generac) warrants that its Generator will be free from defects in material and workmanship for the items and period set forthbelow. Generac will, at its discretion, repair or replace any part(s) which, upon evaluation, inspection and testing by Generac or an Independent AuthorizedService Dealer, is found to be defective. Any equipment that the purchaser/owner claims to be defective must be evaluated by the nearest IndependentAuthorized Service Dealer. Emissions components are excluded from coverage under this extended warranty. Emissions warranty coverage is detailed in aseparate emissions warranty.Warranty Coverage: Warranty coverage period is for ten (10) years or two-thousand (2,000) hours, whichever occurs first
It would appear that Generac would expect 200 hour per year operation in a non-prime power setup.

If you run 10 hour at a time to recharge the battery bank during winter--You are looking at 20 days per year as "typical" for a Generac (my words, not theirs).

This vendor does sell generac for "off grid" usage:

https://www.nationwidegenerators.com/generac-guardian-15kw-ecogen-generator-7163-1ph-alum-enclosure/

*For OFF GRID use, Unit Will require an AC Power Source to Charge Battery
*NEW* 15kW Fixed Speed with Wi-Fi Residential Standby Generator
NOT FOR SALE IN CALIFORNIA
Whether the off-grid lifestyle is a choice or a necessity, you are responsible for producing the energy you consume – even when there’s no sun or wind. Ensure you never have dead batteries with the Generac EcoGen–the only automatic standby generator designed and warrantied specifically for off-grid use with an alternative energy system. 

• True Power Technology-  Cleaner power than competitive air-cooled home standby generators.

• Extended Run Capability This innovative oil circulation system extends the maintenance intervals by an unprecedented 5 times the industry standard by offering 500 hour maintenance intervals.

• 3 Year 2000 Hour Limited Warranty.

• Generac generators and engines are engineered and Built in the USA* *Built in the USA using domestic and foreign parts
  

• Generac's G-Force 1000 Series Engine is a purpose-built, pressure-lubricated engine capable of handling the rigors of generator use, resulting in power that’s more reliable and requires less routine maintenance than any competitive engine.

• ....

3 year/2,000 hour warranty....

https://www.generac.com/for-homeowners/home-backup-power/home-backup-products/ecogen

Generac's EcoGen is the solution for automatic backup power in an alternative energy system, like wind or solar power.

DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY FOR ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SYSTEMS.
THE FIRST BACKUP GENERATOR WARRANTED FOR OFF-GRID USE
Whether you're off grid by choice or necessity, you're responsible for the production of the energy you consume. Even when there’s no sun or wind, your batteries continue to deliver electricity. Unless you have a backup power system in place, your battery bank will drain. Generac engineered the EcoGen home backup generator as the first automatic backup generator warranted for off-grid use when used in an alternative energy system. It integrates easily into your existing inverter and battery storage system. And it runs on your existing LP fuel supply.
...
EXTENDED RUN
Our exclusive premium oil-recovery and circulation system virtually halts oil degradation, resulting in greatly extended maintenance intervals—an unprecedented five times the industry standard, with 500 hours between oil changes.

So--Looking around, it looks like Generac does not exclude off grid power systems. And the current website offers for Off grid Solar/Wind homes... With an extra large external oil tank (I think that is it) for 500 hour vs 100 hours for a typical small Honda between oil changes.

-Bill

wellbuilt

I have limited experience with different types of generators I bought a 3500 watt Kawasaki in 1985 for work and it still runs like new . 

Change  the oil change the plug change the filters clean the carb once and adjusted the valves a few times. 

The generator would run from the start of work Until when we were done 10 or more hours four months. 

 Some times I don’t use it for years but it must have 5/6 k on it 
  I use concrete mixers , tampers log splitters , roller , blowers ..

   Most of the equipment is 25 years old or more and it all just runs . 

 My mixer started on the first pull after 3 year of sitting behind the shop . 

 I just run it out of fuel . 

  I have some champion genarators that give good service but I need to fool with them to keep them running 
   It hard to beat any thing with a Honda  sticker on it. 

   I use a 2800 watt Honda to run my place now . It sat in the shed all summer with clean oil and the fuel off . 

  This morning we had snow and a ice storm so I walked out to the shed flipped the fuel on , pulled the choke , one slow pull on the cored to spin the Honda over and it fired on the next pull .
  15000kw sounds way to big . 

  I think a 6000 watt genarator would be perfect to charge with 2 fx3648 inverters
   I would get a open framed Honda or 8/10kw diesel ,  kabotas just run for ever and are easy to service .  

pabloesguapo

I talked to the gennie repair guy and asked him about the off-grid restrictions on the warranties.  He said, at least for Generac,
the restriction only comes into play if the generator is the primary source of power. 
In my set up, it is considered back up power, and I have had warranty service accepted and performed on this unit before. 
It is aged out of warranty, not run through the hours limit.  (I think 6 or 7 years) 
 I use it only about 200hrs a year, tops.  I live in AZ, lots of sunshine here. 

He calmed my fears about Generac a bit.  They discontinued the 6kw Ecogen, and that horizontal engine completely.
The unit they recommend for my off grid use nowadays is the 15kw Ecogen.  It's a completely
different engine design, and he reports having almost no problems with it breaking down in his experience. 
The problems I have with the 6kw are somewhat common, according to him, oil leaks.  I just had it rebuild 
this summer.  I can't have more than 50 new hours on it and now it leaks again. 

mcgivor

Kohler NG/LP home units have a 2000h 5 year warranty, at only 200h per annum it would at least be covered for the full 5 years instead of 2, no personal experience with them, may want to read the fine print in warranty.