Configuration Settings Needed for Xantrex MPPT60-150 Charge Controllers

I have a Xantrex home solar grid-tie system with battery back-up, and I'm a novice.
1.    Xantrex MPPT60-150 Charge Controllers (THREE)
2.    Xantrex XW4548 12060 AC Inverters (TWO)
3.    Xantrex SCP Control Panel
4.    Solar panels
5.    (4) Trojan 30XHS 12 volt (flooded) batteries linked in parallel
I replaced the original AGM batteries with four (4) Trojan 30XHS 12 volt (flooded) batteries linked in parallel.  
I need to configure/reprogram the three charge controllers (Xantrex MPPT60-150) for the flooded batteries.
I have the XW configuration sheet (blank).
The charger settings ask for values I don’t know.
Please help me by telling me what the charger setting should be based on my system and batteries.  I would like a “trickle charge” rate, of short duration.  The batteries are really insufficient to “back up” much of anything, but must keep working.


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Comments

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    > four (4) Trojan 30XHS 12 volt (flooded) batteries linked in parallel.

     Once, I figured was a typo.   Twice, I agree - you are a novice.  You need someone on site with you to help you put this either:
    a) away and get your $ back
     or
    b) get you educated so you don't hurt yourself of others.   This is not a radio shack $12 kit that was engineered to be safe, this is high voltage gear that will reach out and bite you before you can blink.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,809 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The battery amp hours are as you said, " wont back up much of anything". They probably will not sell reliably either.
    Typically an XW needs 400 ah at the 20 hour rate to run full power. The units you have are old and out of support life. Better rethink this one.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • ModestoBobModestoBob Registered Users Posts: 3
    Well, yes...I'm a novice.  I've had the system since 2011, when a solar installer set it up. 5 years ago I switched from a large bank of AGM batteries to only 4 flooded when the AGM batteries failed.  Xantrex said "it was the batteries", the battery company said "it was the charge controller overcharging the batteries".  So no one took responsibility and I was out a ton of $$. These batteries are still serviceable, but not new.  The solar guy wants me to buy new ones, but they check out OK.  Meanwhile, he disconnected the system.  Yes, it was selling quite a bit of power back to the grid, so 4 batteries kept the system going, 4 batteries at 225 Ah = 900 Ah.  Before I reset the system and get it going, I want to insure I'm not OVERCHARGING these batteries.  At this point, I'm not sure what the setting should be.  When I know that, I'll be able to figure out how to program the unit.  I don't plan to do anything "dangerous", just modify the battery type, charging rate and duration.
    Any help there would be appreciated.  The solar installer says Xantrex won't answer him, they won't answer me, and neither will the battery manufacturer.  SO, please reach out with some positive feedback, as I will be doing SOMETHING.  I'd rather that somethig was correct and not "by guess and by golly".
    Thanks.
    BTW - where's the "typo" or "error"?  > four (4) Trojan 30XHS 12 volt (flooded) batteries linked in parallel. There are 4 12 v batteries, they are not in series.  They put out a "connected" output of 12v.  What did I write wrong?  Help me out here.  Is a wet-cell standard battery NOT a "flooded" battery?

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,452 admin
    edited November 2020 #5
    You said that you had xw4548 inverters (two on the same battery bank?).
    That should be a 4,500 Watt inverter with on a 48 volt battery bus.
    With 4 x 12 volt batteries, those should be connected in series (plus to minus between batteries) to reach 48 volts. Add voltage only adds on series, then that string is 225 AH at 48 volt per string).
    If you mixed or have other batteries in the string (replaced a couple failed batteries with the Trojan batteries), then your bank will be a different AH capacity.
    Do you have a voltmeter to measure your bank voltage during charging, discharging, and rest?
    Do you have a hydrometer to measure the FLA batteries (cells) specific gravity?
    Nominally (at room temperature) an FLA back should be at 14.75 volts per 12 volt battery on absorb charge (charging set point) or 4x that for the 48 volt bank, or 59.0 volts.
    With your old bank (AGM), did you take a voltmeter and check each battery, and the whole 48 volt bank voltage under the different conditions?
    Are your batteries hot, cold, or from temperature most of the time?
    What brand and model of AGM batteries are they? Is your system mostly grid tied and feeding the grid except during power outages? What voltage was the back running during these times?
    The batteries mostly floating, or did you cycle then every night?
    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,452 admin
    To be clear, 4x batteries in parallel stores the same amount of energy as 4x batteries in series... Power = Voltage * Current.... 4x the current=4x the power vs 4x voltage = 4x the power (same answer).

    connecting-batteries series and parallel

    Some basic tools for testing/monitoring your system:

    https://www.solar-electric.com/search/?q=hydrometer (hydrometer to measure specific gravity of electrolyte for FLA batteries)

    And, I really like the AC+DC Current Clamp Digital Multimeters (DMM)--Make sure AC+DC current. There are AC only clamp meters which are perfectly fine units--But we need DC current function too for the battery side of things:


    A current clamp meter is very nice for system debugging--If you have parallel solar panels and/or series strings of batteries connected in parallel--A clamp current meter makes it very easy to check that each panel/battery string is using its proper share of current (looking for bad/corroded cable connections, open or shorted battery cells, etc.).

    And besides checking the bank voltage during charging/discharging/resting... You can also measure the voltage of each battery in the series string(s)... A very quick and easy way to find a battery that is "different" than the others in the bank. Battery voltages should match very closely--When you see a battery with high or low voltage--Time to investigate (bad cell, bad connection, etc.).

    Always suggest that we start with the battery MFG. settings for charging voltage:

    CHARGER VOLTAGE SETTINGS (AT 77°F/25°C)
    SYSTEM VOLTAGE
    12V/24V/36V/48V
    Bulk Charge14.82/29.64/44.46/59.28
    Float Charge13.50/27.00/40.50/54.00
    Equalize Charge16.20/32.40/48.60/64.80

    And reviewing the battery mfg's manual too:


    More or less--A good maximum Wattage from an FLA battery bank is ~1,000 Watts per 100 AH or 2.25 kWatts for your 225 AH @ 48 volt string... More than that, you could have issues with batteries dropping voltage when 1/2 charged, or during very cold weather. Also, when charging over that (roughly >13% rate of charge), the batteries can overheat (suggest a remote battery temperature sensor too).

    I would really like to understand what was happening with your original battery bank (voltages, charging set points, temperatures, depth of cycling, overall usage, etc.).

    I like to call the battery bank the "heart" of an off grid power system. The whole idea is to keep the batteries "Happy" (proper charging, no over discharging, etc.).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so 4 batteries kept the system going, 4 batteries at 225 Ah = 900 Ah. 

    &

    BTW - where's the "typo" or "error"?  > four (4) Trojan 30XHS 12 volt (flooded) batteries linked in parallel. There are 4 12 v batteries, they are not in series.  They put out a "connected" output of 12v.  What did I write wrong?  Help me out here.  Is a wet-cell standard battery NOT a "flooded" battery?

    Something does not match.    you have 48V inverters and insist your battery bank running them, is a 12V bank.
      I can't help because the data seems too wrong to make any sense.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,809 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The product has been discontinued and Schneider Electric who bought Xantrex has stated they will not support this product years ago.
    They will support the installer and tell them the same thing. The internals to the old greybox XW are only available used from scavenged units. There are people who repair the units.

     Grid-tie with battery inverters is very challenging job. Because of the extra danger from batteries (fires, explosion and loss of insurance coverage) you need to be careful and should consider what the "solar guy" is telling you. If he is licensed then the risk is all on him.
     Good Luck!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

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