Schneider XW+ 6848 to 2 single phase generators

rayslanrayslan Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭
On a Grid tied system I want to connect my two single phase 120v generators to the XW+ 6848's AC2 L1 and L2 inputs so I can to help the solar panels charge  my SimpliPhi 48v batteries during extended power outages on cloudy days. I guess my first question is "does the generator have to be a split phase 240v type or can I use 2 120v generators instead?".  I have done all the wiring and the Inverter sees 120v on both sides of AC2. The Inverter says Qualifying, not Qualify Good.  I have not simulated a power outage and am not sure how to further test this. I am assuming that the generators only kick in (I manually start them) when the grid is down and the batteries need charging or the system needs help with heavy loads.
Thanks
Ray S.
Naguabo, Puerto Rico, El Yunque Wilderness area. Scheinder: XW+6848, XW MPPT60/150 Charge Controller, Conext SCP: Conext Battery Monitor, Conext Gateway: 12 Canadian Solar 340 Watt Panels, 2 SimpliPhi 3.5KWh 48v Batteries, Honda EU3000IS Inverter, Yamaha iPower 2000 Inverter

Comments

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,563 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18 #2
    Welcome to the forum @rayslan

    The better solution would be to use a single phase 240V generator without neutral to avoid any neutral bonding issues, using two 120V generators would result in an out of phase situation thus being regected by the XW inverter charger, at least that's my view.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,508 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You need a split phase genset or a 120 to 240 transformer. Doing what you propose will never qualify the genset. And yes, it is in the manual.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Syncing 2 different generators is going to be
    1) difficult
    2) resulting in both being in same phase, which would not work. They need to be phase locked in opposite  phases.

    You need to get a generator larger than 6kw  Those often will have 240V output.

    Is this for emergency use only, or battery maintenance in the winter ?

    You do NOT want or need an "inverter" style generator, they are expensive but very quiet.    Any good Contractor grade generator should work for emergency use.  If you need extended days of running in winter, for house and batteries, you can either get 2 cheap contractor generators and split the run time between them, or get a higher quality off grid generator.

    The more hours you anticipate needing the generator for, lower RPM generators will last longer. ( 1800 rpm or 650 rpm diesels)
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • rayslanrayslan Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Thanks all. Couldn't find it in the manual. I was told (not by Scheinder) I could charge the batteries by connecting just one generator to AC2 L1. Thought I would try it. Charging batteries is really all I need from a generator and that would be a rare occurrance.  I was also advised I could hook both my generators up. Looks likes bad advise. I know a new 240 genset would do it but I already own 2 inverters since Hurricane Maria left us with 8.5 months no power, no solar.
    Naguabo, Puerto Rico, El Yunque Wilderness area. Scheinder: XW+6848, XW MPPT60/150 Charge Controller, Conext SCP: Conext Battery Monitor, Conext Gateway: 12 Canadian Solar 340 Watt Panels, 2 SimpliPhi 3.5KWh 48v Batteries, Honda EU3000IS Inverter, Yamaha iPower 2000 Inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,508 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The other Schneider inverter CSW 4048 can do what you want with one 120V genset or 240. That may have been the mix-up. XW needs 240 split phase.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • rayslanrayslan Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Dave you mentioned a 120v to 240v transformer. Any suggestions on which one? I have looked but no joy yet.
    Naguabo, Puerto Rico, El Yunque Wilderness area. Scheinder: XW+6848, XW MPPT60/150 Charge Controller, Conext SCP: Conext Battery Monitor, Conext Gateway: 12 Canadian Solar 340 Watt Panels, 2 SimpliPhi 3.5KWh 48v Batteries, Honda EU3000IS Inverter, Yamaha iPower 2000 Inverter
  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,563 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    The choice would depend on if you currently have a 120V generator, if not and are looking into getting a generator, then a 240V would be the best option. Should you already have  a 120V generator then a step up transformer of greater VA, by at least 20% of the generator rating, would be required. A simple Google search would link to many options......what do you currently have, if anything?
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A common step up auto transformer is the PSX-240
    https://www.solar-electric.com/psx-240.html

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • rayslanrayslan Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Thanks Mike95490. That auto transformer might do the trick. 
    FYI mcgivor I have 2 120v generators a EU3000is Honda and a iPower Yamaha 2000
    Naguabo, Puerto Rico, El Yunque Wilderness area. Scheinder: XW+6848, XW MPPT60/150 Charge Controller, Conext SCP: Conext Battery Monitor, Conext Gateway: 12 Canadian Solar 340 Watt Panels, 2 SimpliPhi 3.5KWh 48v Batteries, Honda EU3000IS Inverter, Yamaha iPower 2000 Inverter
  • rayslanrayslan Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited October 22 #11
    Not 60 cycles. As I mentioned I have 2 gas powered inverters. I measured both of them with my Hewlett Packard test bench volt meter and neither reads 60 cycles. Way off. So I think that is why the xw6848 is not qualifying them. ??  I used to have a Blackmax gas generator which read 60 cycles no problem as long as the RPM's were right. I found an inexpensive 120/240 generator non inverter type, maybe that's all I need. 
    Naguabo, Puerto Rico, El Yunque Wilderness area. Scheinder: XW+6848, XW MPPT60/150 Charge Controller, Conext SCP: Conext Battery Monitor, Conext Gateway: 12 Canadian Solar 340 Watt Panels, 2 SimpliPhi 3.5KWh 48v Batteries, Honda EU3000IS Inverter, Yamaha iPower 2000 Inverter
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,085 admin
    What brand/model of inverter generators are those?

    Do you have an oscilloscope to look at the want form?

    Need to replace an inverter control module?

    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,508 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This thread is being over thought a bit.

     " I found an inexpensive 120/240 generator non inverte typer, maybe that's all I need. "

    Most definitely this is what you need. XW will not work with 120 gensets, inverter or not.. Even if synced and the same model gensets it will not be close enough. No use trying this, it was done 15 years ago and has not changed.

    I only use the Honda EU 7000i 240vac with XW but any decent 240vac genset for north america will work if XW is configured properly. Back to the fire.....
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

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