Schneider Xw + 6648 with AES 6650 Lithium Battery with build in Xanabus

crazycanuk

Sorry for the lengthy post  below, but wanted to give as much information as I could in the post.

Reaching out to the experts here. Relatively knowledgeable user but I hired an expert to replace my lead acid setup ( 24 Rolls Batteries in 3 sets of 48 volts) with a lithium AES 6650 battery. Starting out with a single battery as they are not cheap and until we get it working well with my setup, I was not going to invest the large $ for a full bank. That said, the expert had it set up and charging from the generator but not the solar units. Sort of got the solar units charging a bit , but not fully. Now the generator when running throw an F49 error EVERY time it runs. I attempted different generators as I have 3, but all did the same.  The expert walked as he was fixed price so I am left to debug it and Schneider's support model is geared toward resellers. I am reaching out to this group as I have lurked here for a while and I am impressed with the knowledge.  My guess it is some settings he monkeyed with but he did not keep a log that he shared with me so I am set debugging.  Please note I did have some special instructions from Midnite Solar and Schneider for working with their equipment and in double checking found that all was consistent with their criteria.
 
My system consists of:

8 TRINA Panels 230 v each in 5 strings
2 Midnite solar 150 MPPT only using one that now has a disconnected wizbang jr and a temperature probe
1 Schneider Electric XW+ 6648 
1 Schneider Electric AGS 
1 Schneider Electric Combox (older version)
1 Generator Military Generator MEP-803 10KW with auto start 2 wire board installed
1 AES Discover 6650 lithium  battery with Xanabus and battery management unit that communicates to Schneider box

It was working fine on the older lead acid flooded batteries  for 5 years, but they had reached their 10 year useful life.  As an aside, the new battery is awesome. Once it was charged up I can run 12 to 14 hours before it hits the 45 percent level to force a recharge from the generator or solar. So I know it is something he configured.  Also noted a discrepancy in voltage between the batterymon device (AES BTS system) and the Schneider XW status see below:

 


For further information. I am off grid completely so am not utilizing utility features as all.  I live here full time and with the pandemic am able to work from home and tweak as needed. I know it is some couple of settings that will fix this. I will document the experience when we are done for the next person as lithium is the technology that appears to work great for my fully off grid 1200 square foot home.  

Would appreciate the help as I am right now running generator bypassing all the Schneider equipment. I have even thought about hooking up the old batteries until we can get this resolved. As far as I know there was no backup of the settings taken once it worked. Wish I had been here when he started that but lessons learned.. I have not found anyone else local or I would entertain them working on this but literally, I am 5 to 7 hours drive time and with the pandemic, getting house calls in Michigan is an issue.

Below is a screen shot of the "system" in full sun ( If I pull in more load from the house the solar panels will meet the load with NO change to charging and the Schneider thinks the Battery is 100 percent full.


As you can see the battery is not full but it is not charging the battery. Some setting is preventing it from charging. If I run the generator it creates a DC overload from the XW unit. An F49 error I believe.  It also falsely reports that the battery in this condition is 100 percent.

Any help would be appreciated. I would even take screen shots of others setups if they were successful.  

Thanking all of you in advance, this is a great site.
George McCausland

mcgivor

Not having components that all communicate together make the Combox graphics virtually useless due to missing information, particularly logging data as there is no solar input information provided by the Midnight controller, this not to say that it wouldn't work it's merely incomplete.

The discrepancies in voltage could be due to where the measurement is taken, the XW is taken at the inverter, the battery monitor could be closer to the battery, though 2 volts seems excessive. Based on my understanding the AES 6650 is Xanbus compatible is it connected to the network as well? When the conversation was made was everything defaulted, then properly programed as per the instructions provided, see attachment for installation and programming.

mike95490

You must get the Proper charger settings programmed into the Midnight Classic.
  I use a mix of Schneider gear, Morningstar and Midnightsolar and all works fine.  But you have to configure them properly.

You may need a firmware update for the classic to work better with the Li battery.

Only one classic needs to have the WB-Jr , they share the thermal sensor and WBJr data between them with their own network cables 
 (never EVER connect a classic to a xanbus network or you WILL fry a network board somewhere.)



(Didn't have a pic of full battery without the generator running)

Wheelman55

Sorry for your pain. I’m off grid with a Schneider system (XW+ 6848, PDP, MPPT 80-600, SCP) and one Discover AES 42-48-6650 XANBUS battery. All connected to XANBUS. 

I finished the install and commissioned the system a month ago. The only programming that I had to do was setting the clock on the SCP. XANBUS and AES did the rest. 

I do not have COMBOX or AGS. I’ll add COMBOX down the road and maybe AGS. 

Mike95490, not trying to start an argument here, just saying that with all Schneider gear the Discover batt setup was pretty much automatic. 

Best of luck to the OP. 

Dave Angelini

Yes on wheelman 55. It is automatic or plug and play. Something is wrong with user set-up.

So, George a question. You have an external schneider bat mon and the internal AES bat mon?

Last question is who sold this to you and why are they not supporting you? AES is Canadian.

crazycanuk

Group. My sincere apologies.  I had a death in the family about the time this was all transpiring and I totally forgot that I had posted here.  First off, thanks to all of you.  I did get the system functioning with the help and encouragement of this group and the discovery people.  The unit is all working fine and I purchased a second battery. During normal weather the generator does not run for days unless I have a house full of grandkids.  Still some minor issues such as I cannot set the batter bank to less than 40 percent and the lithium can go much lower than that. One of my contacts at Schneider told me to upgrade all units to newer software and it would allow that to happen. I will wait until summer for that exercise as I hate to have it stall and not work in our Michigan winter weather!

What worked was some changes to both the main XW settings AND the AGS settings. Turns out that the XW was over riding some of the trigger setting and then it got confused.

The reseller of the equipment has been great, but the local install I worked with closed up shop. I am pretty self sufficient so I am comfortable now with the system I can pretty much do anything. Oh, forgot. The main breaker (large 180 amp) on the XW was replaced by me as I notices some issues with it. That also stopped the errors I was geting when the generator kicked on.

Would I increase lithium battery bank with discover batteries. Yes. My goal is to have 72 hours of no solar and no generator. It works that way in non winter months, but winter months is my goal.

I will attempt to document better the reason this was fixed over the next 90 days. I am swamped with work and getting the homestead/farm ready for spring.

Again thanks to all !  

George

Dave Angelini

Yes wait until summer and never do firmware on a week-end.
 In case you get in trouble, you want it to be in the AM Monday thru Friday, on a non Canadian Holiday during business hours at Schneider.
You should consider getting the Gateway as it is an easier way to get Tech Support to help. Combox is a discontinued product.

The AES may need firmware also depending on when you bought it.

b. ecologìcAll

LiFePo batteries in close loop like discover works better when all components of a system talk to each others.
put those midnite for sale on the internet, they will be going fast.
buy new single Schneider mppt60. re arrange the 8 pv  panels,  4 strings of two panels each. 
replace the combox with the new insight home (new gateway)
install the new firmware to the insight home, configure the time settings, internet settings, etc
install the new firmare to the Discover battery (make a savings pig to buy a 2nd one)
read the Discover close loop with Schneider paper in the Discover website if you have not read it already
put grid support to 53.2 or 53.3, play with it until you find the one works better with your system
change recharge voltage to 51 in the XW
change recharge voltage to 52 in the mppt 60
I have more than 20 projects with Discover AES, I love those batteries. 
you are welcome!!!!