Schneider Electric XW6848+ Inverter Won't Qualify Generator Input

neutronspinneutronspin Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
New install and everything works good.  I attempted to test AC generator and the inverter will not qualify it.  I let the generator run for almost a half hour and still not qualifying.  I checked the AC settings and they appear correct.  The Generator frequency stays at 62 HZ and the voltage on AC2 is 236.6.  AC2 L2 voltage is at 118.9 and AC2 L1 voltage is at 118.2 which seems normal.  The frequency setting to qualify is
from 54.5 - 65 Hz.

Any info appreciated perhaps I may be missing something.  I notice the  AC2 Transfer delay is set at "36"....I assume that number is in seconds.  I am attaching screen shots of the settings and actual run data from the inverter.

One more question....does the Grid input have to be disconnected before the generator can be online?  Perhaps that is necessary to work.  Maybe Grid and Generator power can't be on at the same time.  Guess what.....that was the problem....I forgot to disconnect the grid input for the test....... :#:blush:
Thanks in advance.


Comments

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So it worked after you disconnected from the grid ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    I was gonna say...grid input has to be off...glad you worked it out...good info for others

  • neutronspinneutronspin Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    So it worked after you disconnected from the grid ?
    Sorry a little late....Yes, it works perfectly fine....
  • t00lst00ls Solar Expert Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    I just had a thought...I know I said grid power has to be off...and I know that worked...I'm just curious now

    you might could try AC priority....if you set it to 2 generator input, does it still do the same thing
  • tampasolartampasolar Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭
    This is my exact situation too.  Except when I kill AC1, the inverter makes AC from the batteries.  It will not pass any current from the AC2 generator input.  Gateway shows --
    AC2 Voltage 213.3 V
    AC2 L1 Voltage 106.6 V
    AC2 L2 Voltage 106.7 V
    AC2 Frequency 59.4 Hz
    AC2 Power 
    hybrid: xw6848 pro with mppt60 and 16 cells 280ah LiFePO4 storage, 3 kw pv, going to 17 cells asap
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 2x 5k
    120 panels total on property
    5 panels in series driving 90v 1hp pool pump
  • tampasolartampasolar Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭
    Need to add that 3 months ago I had a xw4548 in the same spot.  It did not have any issue with my Titan diesel genset.  Today I have the xw 6848 Pro and it won't pass AC2 power.  It sees the gen but even with config wide open on the settings, won't allow or qualify it.
    hybrid: xw6848 pro with mppt60 and 16 cells 280ah LiFePO4 storage, 3 kw pv, going to 17 cells asap
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 2x 5k
    120 panels total on property
    5 panels in series driving 90v 1hp pool pump
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,433 admin
    edited July 2020 #8
    213 VAC / 106 VAC is pretty low voltage for North America... Can you get the Genset Voltage to 115 to 120 VAC nominal?

    In the olden days--A good test was to put a 100 Watt lamp on the genset output (or two for a 120/240 VAC genst, one on L1 to N and a second on L2 to N). Some gensets, with no loads, tended to have voltage and frequency stability issues. Once there was a load, then they would settle down.

    Now that it is difficult to find 100 Watt filament lamps--Perhaps some 50-100 Watt rough service lamps for drop cords? Seem to be somewhat available in filament bulbs. Or use a small electric heater...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do you have the amps programmed correctly for the AC2 inputs ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • tampasolartampasolar Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭
    It turns out that leaving the default ac2 breaker size at 60 amps, might have been the issue.  Setting down to 16 amps seems to have done the trick.  Too bad the device can't generate a message or warning or any clue for new installs.  Unfortunately it still complains at times.  When the load pushes the generator past the 16 amp threshold, it disconnects the ac2 input completely and runs on batteries for the 10 seconds until it retries.  Gen Support is set at 15 amps.  Do I set that to match the breaker size ?  Is there any other parameter to consider ?

    AC2 Voltage 213.3 V
    AC2 L1 Voltage 106.6 V
    AC2 L2 Voltage 106.7 V
    AC2 Frequency 59.4 Hz

    AC Settings are

    AC2 Breaker Size 16
    AC2 Low Voltage 80
    AC2 High Voltage 138
    AC2 Low Freq 54.5
    AC2 High Freq 65
    AC2 Transfer 10

    hybrid: xw6848 pro with mppt60 and 16 cells 280ah LiFePO4 storage, 3 kw pv, going to 17 cells asap
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 2x 5k
    120 panels total on property
    5 panels in series driving 90v 1hp pool pump
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,805 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pretty common setting adjust especially if you do not have an 18 KW genset for 60A. Your going to have to play with the  gen support. I don't use it for clients because it is a pain and they really should have a large enough genset to not have this headache. My opinion.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • RCinFLARCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2020 #12
    Some generators with old wind vane govenors slow down when load gets higher.  If slows down too much the inverter will disconnect.  Sometimes if you tweek the set screw on the gen to a little higher RPM with no load it give a little more margin.  Usually the biggest problem is when you have a sudden surge like a pump or air conditioner starting up the gen bogs down suddenly and inverter disconnects from it. The inverter cannot suppliment the surge load fast enough to prevent it from passing through to generator.

    It is not just the freq range setting,  it is also the rate of change as the inverter phase locking circuit has a narrow bandwidth.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My vintage XW6048 has no trouble tracking a 5kw gen head (hp limited to 3kw) with a 650rpm single cyl diesel.  Light bulb flicker is obvious with its output and when the well pump kicks in, it doesn't miss a beat.   If you configure the Gen Support and AC2 settings right, all I can say is that it works for me, and many times I've watched in winter, as wife loads things up while generator is charging batteries and it throttles back charging and even kicks in Assist when the blow dryer comes on. Inverter tracks and does not loose lock.  It does loose lock with a Eu2000 running thru a step-up transformer, and a heavy loads kicks in, but it re-engages quickly.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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