What do I have?

pplwizardpplwizard Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
Hello everyone this is my first time on the Forum and I have a question but first some background. I have a Spartan 24 volt DC to AC inverter 8 wet cell lead acid batteries wired in two sets of 24 volts each and about 1500 watts of solar panels. I am running a small incubator Hatchery complete with incubators brooders and a real live refrigerator for me and some 12-volt DC lighting. All is working well I recently bought online from wish a supposedly 3000 watt 24 volt DC wind generator yet when it came there was no electronic markings on the controller or the wind generator whatsoever. I've hooked everything up correctly and even if I unplug the controller the wind generator is not spinning in the Wind. yet it spins freely by hand and I live on the top of a mountain and we have a lot of wind. the American flag which is made out of heavy cloth is virtually straight out. So my question is, is there a way to test my wind generator and the controller to verify if it in fact it is for a 24 volt system and if it is not and it's a 12-volt system what is the reaction I could expect to see when I hook it up to my 24 volt system.

Comments

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,467 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can polish it, but it's still going to be a wind tur#

    Wind turbines need clean air, at least 20 feet higher than roofs and tree tops. Turbulent wind cannot spin blades well.

    Have you contacted your supplier and followed his suggestions?

    The wrong voltage: if it's a 12V machine, it wants to output about 15 - 18V for battery charging, and would pretty much freewheel on a 24V system without doing any work.  24 v may trigger the brakes and stop it.

    If it's not even spinning at all in a stiff breeze, that makes me think of a shorted wire somewhere or a brake engaged.   A common braking mechanism for wind turbines is to short the output and stall the rotation to save bearing life.


    What is your wind controller and what is the diversion load ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,702 admin
    Regarding the electrical part... A wind turbine is basically an alternator (like the one in your car) that generates >24 VAC (can be several times 24 VAC)... You may have the three AC power lines that come from the alternator down to a wind controller (rectifier, regulator, possibly MPPT switch mode controller, perhaps some resistors/heaters to dump excess power when the batteries are charged and it is still windy, and possibly some sort of braking mechanism... Mechanical brake, furl out of wind, feather blades, short out AC alternator, etc.).

    The turbine would ideally be mounted at least 30 feet above the ground, and at least 10 feet above any obstructions within ~500 feet... The turbine needs to be in "laminar" or very smooth airflow. If it is in turbulent air (buildings, trees, mountains, etc.), there is very little useful energy that can be harvested in turbulent wind.

    Is there any brand/model on the turbine? Perhaps a couple pictures, and somebody can identify it?

    I am not a big fan of wind... And many times, the home made DIY turbines are better than what you can buy--Plus you can make your own parts to repair them, when needed.

    Here are some links to other sources of Wind Power information (including other forums that are more wind centric than our's):

    Wind Power Links
    www.otherpower.com (good forum for DIY Wind Power)
    Hugh Piggott - Scoraig Wind Electric site for tons of info (from mike90045)
    Scoraig Wind "Recipe Book" for DYI Turbines (from Chris Olson... From his 4/11/2013 post)
    www.greenpowertalk.org (added from "russ"--Like here but more wind/less solar)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • pplwizardpplwizard Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Thank you for your comments... Here is some additional information. 

    It is on a 30 foot pole on the top of a mound at the highest point on top of a mountain... No obstructions with 360 degrees clearance. 

    I have disconnected all three of the wires and have had 20mph winds today but the blades have not moved an inch. 

    How do I disengage the break? 
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,702 admin
    Almost looks like one of these:

    https://www.windandsolar.co.za/shop/turbine-ne-m2-600w/

    Assuming fixed blades (no feathering/fixed based to hub)... The typical issues with a turbine not turning at all could be 1) blades installed "backwards" (wind is going "backwards" through air foils). -- Not likely, but a possibility.

    2) Pole/yaw bearings not square to ground... Turbine not pointing into wind (if pole/yaw bearing is not square to ground, turbine will point out of wind).

    3) Brake applied... If all you have is the 3 AC wires (plus possible ground), the only "brake" is when the output of the turbine is shorted (alternator has very high torque when feeding a dead short). If the alternator has in internal short, can also "brake" the turbine. However, if you can spin the blades by hand to a fair speed--Does not sound like any brake/shorted windings/shorted AC output is happening.

    4) Poor design... Help, my wind turbine is not spinning, but I can turn by hand/with an electric drill/etc. is not an uncommon complaint here. If the turbine has never spun correctly, it usually requires re-engineering the unit (adding large plywood tail to point better into wind, check Alternator windings are Wye or Delta wound, etc.).

    5) Poor siteing... Simply not enough wind, turbulent wind. Certainly looks like a good site, and if it is "miserably" windy there, generally a good start (looking for "flagging trees" is another good sign). Another trick is to go fly a kite--You want the kite to fly straight and level at "hub height" of the wind turbine... If the kite is buffeted by turbulence, then try to fly higher and find smooth air.

    Pull the turbine back down... Get some Names/Part numbers from any components/alternator/casting/fairings/etc... And try to figure out the Rating of the alternator and compare that to the diameter/pitch of your present blades.

    One thing to be very careful of... Horizontal Axis Wind Turbines can very easily overspeed and self destruct in moderate to heavy winds. Generally you want the controller/electric braking system (shorting the alternator, battery bank for sustained load, dump controller+dump loads, etc. (not all turbine installations use all of these pieces)). You don't want the turbine flying without some sort of RPM control.

    Most smaller wind turbines are designed to be "permanently" connected to the battery bank to provide torque (from dumping current into the battery bank) and prevent overspeed. Some will have a simple shorting switch (possibly with a series power resistor) to draw high current from the alternator, provide high torque/resistance to spinning, and "stall" the blades.

    That is probably about all I can do from here... I am certainly no-way a wind turbine expert by any means. (I do not sell, install, maintain turbines or solar power systems, I am simply a volunteer here with some engineering experience).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think you are "simply" a fantastic resource. You amaze me at your depth and kind heart. Live long and prosper!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,702 admin
    Thank you Dave.
    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • pplwizardpplwizard Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Bill, 

    Thank you so much for your help in this matter. From what you have said I believe the most likely culprit is you choice #3.  Or poor design. 
  • pplwizardpplwizard Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited June 22 #9
    Update.. Again thank you for your inputs... The good news is that from your responses I learned that I had not missed something simple... As it turns out the wind Turbine was just defective... (so now I get to take it apart and see if I can fix it). The better news is I bought it on Wish and when I contacted them about the problem they immediately refunded the total purchase price and said keep the thing.  The best news is that I had a second one and today when I put it up it immediately began to spin like a top.

    Again thank you so much, it was most helpful... 

    Now I have another question but I will start a new thread for that. 

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,702 admin
    That is great news!

    Take lots of pictures when the unit is down (or the "spares" kit). And hopefully we can be more helpful in the future (other than saying "it broke").  :)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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