Rogue MPT-3024

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  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 718 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Ok here is what i will do to passify everyone here. I will build a 24 volt battery bank at my house and take one of my arrays and split it so i will have 495 watts at 24 volts in 2 arrays.

    then I will test against
    Xantrex C series
    Outback FM60
    and anything else any one wants to send this way????

    I am willing to invest in the batteries and wire and dump load to go this far. and i will log daily production as well as peak wattage on each array.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    HC,

    Couldn't ask for more,,,, I await your response. I am almost ready to order one,,, except I really don't need another controller,, but I like the concept.

    Tony
  • nigtomdawnigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I currently have a 2400w fixed array 12 x 200w mono panels half are fed through a C40 and the other half through a XW60 mppt. This has been running for over a year and I can summarise the XW60 performance gain quite simply.

    A net overall harvest of + 8% when MPPT conditions are not favorable clear sky high temperatures , most of summer

    Up to +20% when panels are cooler in late autumn and early spring. Clear days

    Up to +28% in winter Clear Days

    Over +35% spasmodically on cool cloudy days for short periods of time.

    The PV output for the C40 is nominal wired at 24v the XW60 is 48v nominal

    Figures are for bulk charge only.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Will this controller work with a 12 volt system?
    I have 3 panels a total of 380 watts of power and 6 T105's.

    Thanks Ron
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Hi Ron,

    The 3024 will work fine with what you have.

    Also, to those who have been awaiting Ryan's comparative tests, I think he still plans on doing them at some point. He's just been swamped this summer with other stuff.

    Marc
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 718 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    yes i do apoligize I have been swamped and need to find the time and rersources to make this test happen. I should have time to get to this soon with any luck.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    What happen to the test results??????
    I am waiting to purchase one....
    Thanks Ron
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024
    I've seen that on eBay ...

    It uses the case for a heat sink, similar to the crappy BZ-500 ... a 30 amp controller requires a way to dissipate heat, the case won't cut it at full current with large Vin to Vout differences

    It has a maximum input of 60V , pretty low for a 30 amp controller

    looks like a one man shop, it might be a good controller, but nothing in the documents make it stand out, all the features are in current controllers that have more backing behind them.

    You have to take in great account that we are talking about an MPPT (maximum power point tracking) device, which has far higher efficiency than any other charging method. Hence, the power dissipation is much lower. There are no stupid shunts dissipating the power in the air, the manufacturer claims 97/98% power transfer and this is probably true for a well designed dc-dc converter.

    Ciao!
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I just wanted to drop in and say I bought one of these controllers from Marc early this year and have had nothing but great results!

    I've got mine mounted in a 1972 Winnebago with a small 128watt array on a 12v system and I must say I'm pleased with the unit. The unit is seeing some serious abuse in regards to vibrations due to the old Winnebagos rough riding chassis.

    The display is easy to navigate, I like the history feature. A quick glance at the LCD tells me everything I want to know.

    The unit itself is very professionally made, mounted in a heavy gauge steel enclosure.

    Here is a picture of it working.
    med_controller.JPG

    No regrets with this purchase! And Marc was SUPER to work with when I needed some help.

    1972 Classic Winnebago / Brave D20
    Dodge 340, 727 Tranny
    2 Alternators, one is a 3G Re-Wired 250 Amp
    Auto Transfer Switch with 3000/6000 Inverter
    Onan 4000 Watt Genset
    128 Watts Solar / 500AH Battery Bank
    http://www.mywinnebago.com
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I've got one too. I am waiting to write a full report when I get it installed for real, sometime after the first of the year.

    My first impression is how solidly it is built. Compared to the BS 2012ix I am currently using, this is a tank. (compared to the BZ controller that I use as a bench test once in a while, there is no comparison!)

    The display is very easy to understand and navigate. The book, is way better and much more in depth than most electronics these days, where they expect you to access info on line. (very helpful for those of us that live in remote spots with little or no internet service)

    I set up a test bed to play with it. I plugged it into a truck battery, and ~120 watts of Solarex panels. With the lights on in the truck, outside temp near freezing, the battery voltage was showing ~9 vdc. The meter showed Pv voltage of ~ 16.5, current ~6 amps. The battery side show consistent 7+ amps, (with the battery showing ~12.5 vdc) The wattage display showed ~90 watts. Given the fact that the sun was hazy, no reflection off of snow or water, leave panel ef of ~90%. Pretty good if you ask me.

    The cumulative wh and ah data recording seem intuitively correct. (I didn't bother to test the BTS system for just this test.)

    One of the nicest things is the mounting box and lugs are big enough so that you don't have to struggle to mount large gauge wire in the enclosure. The powder coating is nice. All in all, I can't wait to get it up and running. When I add the couple of panels I bought I will be a little bit over it's design limit in terms of total wattage/current available, but since my shading moves across the panel sets, I don't expect to come up against the 30 amp design limit except very rarely with edge of cloud events.

    Sometime later in the winter I will post a more complete review. I would have no hesitation to recommend this controller. Given it's quality and price point, there is little to compare it to. It beats the Blue sky series hands down. The only potential competition is the new Morningstar MPPT.

    Tony
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 718 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Ok I know I am slow but after xmas i will set up the controller I have 660 watts of pv that is 6 110 watt panels and a 24 volt battery bank in place now. we are waiting for a good day to mount the panels. Then with any luck i can get the outback inverter set up to sell as this will be a small grid tied system to run my welder on. I will then be able to stack it beside the outback or xantrex xw or a C series

    Again I do apoligize for being slow but we have been swamped and i guess that is a good thing in this economy.
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 718 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Ok I have my grid tie system running I ran the Rogue CC yesterday and harvested 1.2kwh today I ran a new out of the box FM60 and harvested 1.4kwh the days where equal sunwize my 3 1kw arrays performed the same today as yesterday. Now I did check the Rogue with my fluke meters and its display is dead on all the time I did not get to do that today on the FM60 due to a family emergency but will tomorrow. My experience has shown the FM60 is over rating itself so the 2 controllers may be equal. Look for an update tomorrow

    The one issue I have here is that my 660 watt array is shaded all day by tree limbs real small ones but still there so I don't know if this means the OB is more efficient or better at handling shading. I will look at peak watts and see if one was able to out perform the other?

    My next logical step is to split the array and feed both controllers together at the same time.
  • Robin GudgelRobin Gudgel Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 58 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Take it from somebody who knows..... If people hadn't cut us a lot of slack at first, the MX60 never would have gotten off the ground. The first ones wern't exactly great. Not even close. You do eventually need to have a competitive product with all the necessary agency approvals though.
    Good luck Rogue.
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Ryan,

    Thanks for all the time and work you're putting into this! Any news on the Outback's meter? Any chance of using external watt-hour meters on the two controllers while running side-by-side? Also, if you split your array, will one half be as equally and identically shaded as the other half? I've found that different patterns of shading sometimes cause a controller to react differently.

    Robin,

    I'm not really expecting slack. A product should be able to stand on its own merits. I wouldn't say mine's "not even close," if that's what you're implying. All I ask is for people to give it a fair shake while keeping their egos in check.


    Marc
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,186 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Marc,

    I think if I read Robin's post correctly--Robin was saying his MX 60 "...first ones wern't exactly great. Not even close..." and "If people hadn't cut us a lot of slack at first, the MX60 never would have gotten off the ground."

    He was trying to provide you moral support on your product--not a review of the current state of your controller.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    HalfC,

    Thanks for doing this.

    I have gotten a 3024 and am very happy with it so far. I won't be able to do a real side by side comparison to a BS 2034 until sometime in March, but as of now, it seems to be doing exactly what is said it would. In March, I will set it up with an A/B switch so I can compare side by side with another controller, using the Tri-metric as a meter.

    Tony
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    You're right, Bill. Perhaps I was a little hasty in my comments. If so, my apologies to Robin. I'd just like to wait for some conclusive tests to be finished on my controller before we start taking about faulty products here. The parallels are all too easy to draw, given the atmosphere, even if not intended that way. If Ryan's testing finally shows that the Outback has the edge in performance, then at least I'll have something to guide me if I develop new firmware for this controller, or for my next design. I'll also look forward to Tony's testing against the Blue Sky in March.

    Marc
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 718 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I really don't feel I can split my array right now and be fair. The shading is random. I did get a meter on the Outback and as I suspected it was reading about a Half an amp high so that brings them closer. The following day was nice and I switched them back and the Rogue controller made right at 1.3kwh so My conclusion so far is it is Pretty darn close to the FM series.

    As the days get longer and my pannels get unshaded I will try to set them up side by side and log them threw a pair of trimetrics maybe? If I can find my second one it is missing in my well organized shop.
  • TelcoTelco Solar Expert Posts: 201 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Sorry to intrude, but now that I'm back I'd like to contribute as much as I can, even though the contributions will be small.

    If you are splitting the array to measure two controllers, the simple way to compare the two is to split, run for a day, then switch controllers between the arrays. Provided the weather is the same, this should let you measure each controller with two different shading levels in nearly identical conditions with the two shading conditions being identical for each controller.
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 953 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Marc,
    I saw your MPPT unit back in Maine when I was there. I didn't spend much time with it, but I must say, Nice Job !!! It looks like it works pretty well actually. :D

    boB
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Thanks, Bob! Looking forward to seeing your Classic when it comes out.

    Marc
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I was playing around today with my controller and a single panel. It was remarkable that the MPPT output wattage followed the input wattage almost perfectly through a variety of conditions. For example if the input showed 50 watts, (which coincidentally is 80% of STC wattage of 63) the controller showed an input of ~3.12 amps @ 16vdc.

    The out put showed 3.9 volts @ 13.0 vdc or,,, exactly 50 watts!

    I wore out the numbers on the calculator chasing the numbers and every time they came out with in a .01 volt of the same.

    With a simple connection to the truck battery, with the lights on, dropping the battery to ~12.3 vdc (The battery was charged to start) I was seeing ~ 4.01 amps at ~ 50 watts, with an simple MPPT boost ~25% if my math is right. (And we all know the chances of that being true,,,,LOL).

    So, so far in simple testing I am very impressed. It tracks the MPPT quite well and fast, it converts with very good efficiency and the data logging is very good. I wouldn't expect to see 25% mppt gains on average, but to see these numbers in a simple test is pretty impressive.

    The only suggestion that I have so far is that I think the unit goes to sleep too easily. (And then takes too long to wake up). That said, it goes to sleep when the output drops to <.1 amp and then stays off for 5 minutes. I suspect that with a full array of ~300+ watts it wouldn't go to sleep unless it really needs to. One of the consequences of "sleeping" is that the controller treats each sleep period as a new "day" throwing off you calcs if you are tracking that closely. It would be nice if there were a clock function on board. That would solve the tracking issue, but then (I assume) you could then track the peak output over the course of days, seeing that your MPP was at 1:00 pm today, and at 2:15 the day before. All sort of useful information regardless of how I could react to it.


    I will be home in a few weeks and will put it to the real side by side test against the BS 2512ix. I have a pretty good idea of who will win.

    Tony
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    tony,
    you of course know that with 50w in that there isn't really 50w out as that is 100% efficient and that is impossible. not doubting what you read or anything, but it may be off somewhat in its readings.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Neil,

    I know that, but the documentation from Rogue, states efficiencies ~ 98% at those currents, and with only 50 watts on line, 95-98% is within the decimal points of the metering. For example the meter shows 50 watt,, no decimal, but if you take V*A in it might actually be 50.9 and it will show 50.

    And if you calc V*A out it might calc 50.001 and show 50 watts. So the .9 watts would be ~1.8% difference, certainly within the range of the documentation. It is a bit like a cat chasing it's tail however, because as the numbers change,,,, the numbers change. By the time you have committed the relevant numbers (V,A, Watts in)
    V, A out) at least one will change enough to throw the calc. off a decimal place at the very least.

    My whole point is not that the controller is 100% efficient as I understand that is not possible, but that it comes it at or near spec. It will be interesting to test on the bigger array,, ~450 watts and see if the numbers are as close,

    Tony
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I'll be the first to acknowledge that the meters are not precision-calibrated. In my experience, the ammeters in particular usually are a little off, by maybe a couple tenths of an amp. The voltmeters are pretty solid, to a tenth of a volt, because those are adjusted before the unit leaves. The devices used to sense current (hall effect) are supposed to be factory calibrated, but they're not perfect, and there's no easy way to compensate for output error (it could be done, but it would've required more circuitry, and I didn't feel that the typical degree of error justified it). That's why I think if we're going to do comparitive testing, that it makes sense to use calibrated external metering.

    All the same, I like to see how it's working for people, and what comments they might have. The sleep issue could be made user-adjustable to a point (less time spent between checks, adjustable current threshold, etc.). I considered a real-time clock in this unit, but already the microcontroller's resources are stretched, so it wasn't practical. I've amassed a lot of ideas for another design just in the suggestions people have had!

    Marc
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 718 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I think Mark's smaller MPPT controller is pretty efficient. I am impressed with the way it works. I have been watching 600 watts pretty steady and it does not really get warm. I have found the data on the screen to be very accurate the volts in and out and amps out are right on. I to have all sorts of ideas for features but I supose there is a balance between cost and features. but the 2 biggys I would like to see are Aux output and ETL/UL listing but I understand the last one is a biggy.

    Now that my array is not shaded any where near as much I will split it into 2 arrays and see what I can do for testing.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    No worries Marc,

    Thanks for checking in.

    As for the meter accuracy, I will test it net/net using the my current input ammeter and shunt, and the trimetric as a control. That said, that assumes that my metering is anywhere near accurate. (Which I doubt!)

    Like I said, I will put the whole unit together, with an AB and just do some real time testing in an empirical, but unscientific way. I will post when I get it up and running.

    Tony
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    The early testing I did with the hall effect sensors showed that from one part to the next they strayed a little, so I just allowed for a little tolerance as given in the specs for the unit. But from what I've heard in the field, the end product seems to be pretty accurate. I know my Trimetrics here aren't exactly lab-quality either, so with everything there's going to be a little give and take.

    Ah, yes, the UL listing. I would like to move forward on that, but I understand cost can be considerable. It is something that I'm looking into in the near future. I'm also taking that recommendation for an auxiliary output into consideration. :D

    Thanks again for the updates/thoughts/testing.

    Marc
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    meter accuracy can easily account for it plus the little the controller is using so it is doing good for you. i was making sure others out there are aware there's no 100% here or magic in anyway and nor am i saying that anybody else is saying such.
    as to a suggestion, how about more current and voltage capacity?
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Yep, more capacity is in the works, too. Now if only I could get 110% efficiency...I'll let you know how that goes..haha.

    Marc
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