Rogue MPT-3024

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  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,142 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Also, be aware that MPPT are not magic either... If you have a good match between panels and battery voltage (like 17.5 Vmp vs 12 volt battery bank)--You will gain perhaps 10-15% average on cool days over PWM type controllers.

    If you have a big miss-match (like 32 volt Vmp and 12 volt battery bank), then a MPPT type controller is almost a requirement.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CJW8CJW8 Registered Users Posts: 23
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    My Kyocera 135 panels are 17.7V. I have 2 in parallel. With this controller, does it matter if they are parallel or series in regards to maximum output to the batteries? I have 30 feet of #4 wire from the panels to the controller. I also have a 3rd identical panel that I will eventually mount so 3 in series would be less than the 60V maximum of the controller.

    I will keep the C35 as a spare or a battery charger for the boat.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,142 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024
    CJW8 wrote: »
    My Kyocera 135 panels are 17.7V. I have 2 in parallel. With this controller, does it matter if they are parallel or series in regards to maximum output to the batteries? I have 30 feet of #4 wire from the panels to the controller. I also have a 3rd identical panel that I will eventually mount so 3 in series would be less than the 60V maximum of the controller.

    Actually no, you cannot put 3 panels in series--At 14F, Voc-cold (open circuit voltage) is around 75 volts. Even in warmer climates, I still think 3 panels in series is too high of voltage.

    The most Kyocera 135 panels you can place in series with the Rouge controller is probably two panels (you can add parallel strings of 2 series panels--2, 4, etc).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CJW8CJW8 Registered Users Posts: 23
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    The replacement of the Xantrex C35 was very easy. I just removed the clamps from the knockouts of the C35 and put them in the bottom of the Rogue. The footprint is not that much different. This test was ran in mid Nov and the sun is getting quite low. The two panels are RV mounted flat. The temperature was 30's to 50'sF. The batteries were pulled down by simulating camping. I used some lights and TV in the evening and used the heater during the night. I have programmed the Rogue for 13.6V and 14.8V and the compensator is on the batteries.

    My peak wattage output was 158 Watts. I didn't see this much from the C35 in mid June during a similar test. I noticed the Rogue Volt meter and the Trimetric Volt meter are spot on in agreement.

    I am quite pleased and can't wait to take it camping. We tried before Thanksgiving but had truck problems and had to return home. Next camping trip will be to the Imperial Sand Dunes over New Years. In the meantime, it is maintaining my batteries with all other charge sources turned off.
    WINTER TEST
    http://lh6.ggpht.com/_lAsuwHaXHEs/TOmf07_1D8I/AAAAAAAABKY/Rkun0nH5tS8/s640/Rogue%20controller2.jpg
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024
    CJW8 wrote: »

    Thanks for posting that - very instructive. Nice job.
  • conntaxmanconntaxman Solar Expert Posts: 125 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    After reading about the Rogue MPT-3024 and about others, Im planning to order one myself. I see many here like the Rogue MPT-3024 and says that it works very good for them. Some here say that they don't like it, with not too many reasons , I was looking at the Morningstar TriStar TS-45, PWM Charge Controller, but I think the Rogue is a much better unit.
    I have to say that this site is very usefull to gather info.
    I never try to put down a person or his product Unless I have USED it and seen flaws in the unit.How would anyone know if it is good or not if you never used it?\
    John B
  • SteveKSteveK Solar Expert Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I like the Rogue alot. It's built like a tank. I like the customer service even more. But I find myself needing something a bit larger for the future. I could grow into a second Rogue or go with a larger controller. Still trying to decide...

    Good Luck! I'm sure you could be happy with the Rogue if sized properly to your loads. It is a wonderful product.
  • n3qikn3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024
    conntaxman wrote: »
    Some here say that they don't like it, with not too many reasons ,...........How would anyone know if it is good or not if you never used it?\
    John B

    The only negative I see, is it is not UL listed. This has NO bearing on if the produce is good or bad. Just limits where is can be used.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,142 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    One other limitation--The Rogue is a "mid range" Voc-input controller (60 VDC max pdf manual).

    The MS TS MPPT family is a 150 VDC Voc-input maximum controller (spec sheet).

    If you need to support a 48 volt battery bank and/or have more than 10-20 feet or so of cable between the solar array and charge controller/battery shed--then you should really look at the 150 VDC input max (around Vmp~100 VDC for the array) controllers. The higher voltage can really make it less costly / easier to have the longer wire runs.

    I also like the TS PWM and MPPT family because the have the remote battery sense leads. Makes the battery charging set point much more accurate and should result in a faster battery charge (absorb phase). Eliminates the Voltage drop issue with the controller to battery bank connection.

    Also, look at the other user options... The Rogue comes with a meter/display and no networking (that I am aware of).

    The TS family digital display may be an extra cost option (I am not sure). The TS 45 MPPT has some local computer connection options. The TS 60 MPPT also adds RS 485 and Ethernet support.

    Either controller family (Rogue or Morning Star TS) seems to be real solid performers from what people have posted here.

    You should be very happy with either--But make sure you understand what they come with and any options/networking that may be important to you.

    By the way, the smaller MorningStar 15 amp MPPT controller is a very nice performing unit too.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Long time since I've posted here, but wanted to give an update on the 2nd gen 3024. Availability is still at least a couple of months away. The new model offers remote battery voltage sense, an RS-485 port (with separate 485-232 adapter and Windows software available for monitoring and graphing data), and an auxiliary relay that can be set to turn on at a user-defined battery voltage. The enclosure has also been redesigned and is slightly smaller than the 1st gen. More details to come later!

    Marc
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    sounds good marc.8)
  • SteveKSteveK Solar Expert Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    One thing I like about the Rogue vs the Tristar MPPT is that the absorbtion stage is not simply timed (according to the Tristar manual). The Rogue continues until a preset current setpoint is achieved. I assume this a better way to actually complete the absorbtion stage vs predicting it.

    Please let me know if I'm wrong here as I'm about to pull the trigger one or the other.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Marc,

    Nice to see you are going to be getting the new one out the door! Let me know whey you are ready for beta testing of a larger model!

    Still very happy with mine,

    Tony
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,142 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I can see either method (current or time) as being a valid way to terminate absorb (high voltage) charging...

    If you have loads during the day--your current may never drop below 2% (or whatever current limit you choose)... Your system may never go to float (while there is an external load).

    On the other hand, with the timer, some folks end up changing it during the season--perhaps 2 hours during the summer (when there is lots of sun) and 4 hours or longer when there is a lot less sun.

    From what I have read and understand--I think you would be able to use either controller very nicely for your application. Just watch the water level (aim to refile every ~2 months) and ensure that you get over 90% state of charge at least every few days or once a week.

    I would not agonize over that point...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SteveKSteveK Solar Expert Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Thanks for clearing that up Bill.

    Not to get too far off topic I hope. When I looked at the Tristar manual it explained how the deficit in absorb time would accumulate and add to the absorb time in the subsequent days. I saw this, if left unattended which it could be, as being a possible risk to damaging the batteries as it may balloon into a never ending "too high of a float voltage" so to speak.

    In other words, if normal weather patterns change, I get a rainy week or two and I was deficit charging because of it, the Tristar would keep adding to the absorbtion time in a never ending loop. Therefore exceeding, what would be similar to, the "maximum daily float voltage recomendations" set forth in the "Deep Cycle Battery FAQ".

    Now for the Rogue, it wakes-up, Bulk, Absorb and if not enough daylight to fully complete Absorb, does the same the next day. Looking for the setpoints combo of Vabsb and tail current. Right where the Tristar would continue on it's high voltage way for who knows how long?

    I wonder therefore if the Tristar has a maximum absorb time built-in limiting the above effect. Time to call Morningstar maybe.

    You are probably right that I'm drilling-down too much into this stuff..seems though when I look the other way something always bites me in the butt.

    Thanks again!!
  • bstorybstory Registered Users Posts: 9
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Marc - or anyone who knows,

    What are the dimensions of the new version of the MPT-3024? Couldn't find this anywhere on the web site.

    Thanks!
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    The new 3024 is approximately the same size as the old one: 8.5" x 8" x 3.25" -- tho the new one is a little lower profile (3.25" vs 4"). Completely different type of enclosure, too: the new one is a 2-piece aluminum extrusion; the old one is formed steel.

    Marc
  • Peter_VPeter_V Solar Expert Posts: 226 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Is there any chance the new Rogue 3024 will be able to handle a higher Voc array?

    I'd like to be able to use my 20V panels with a 24V bank, but the only way to do this effectively is to run them in series which means an Voc of almost 75V.
  • ArmyVetArmyVet Banned Posts: 20
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024
    BB. wrote: »
    Really try to avoid the HF amorphous panels... They are usually not worth the effort to mount them (lower than rated output, 2x the area of similar rated crystalline solar panels).

    The MPPT controller will really do well if you have over a couple 100 watts of solar panels... A few 15 watt panels is not going to be the best solution (normally).

    Yea--I know, the panels and hardware cost $$$$$$$.... :cry:

    -Bill

    Funny you mention the HF amorphous panels BB. Now I cant yell at you because thats your opinion. My question is. Have you even tried them in a real world environment. I have 2 set in fact. In fact put in to work. I can get a healthy 7 amps out of 6 of these fairly small panels. The facts you have to look at is. There are small and light . Which make them easier to handle. Also. I know of people that have 2 Kw set up with these sets. And produce just as much or not more power than Regular panels. As far as I am concerned. If your smart about how you do you set up you can do anything for your budget. Yeah sure if you have 20,30 grand to throw to the wind. Crystalline is a banger. But remember there is some people that cant throw money to the wind.
    So that in mind. The Rouge Charge controller is a perfect match for the HF panels.
    Because it brings these panels to life in a new way. Many people I know have been buying these Rouges CC to get past HF's POS controller in box. They have reported enhancements as much as 42 %. And some say these bring these types of panels to life. Just my Input.:D
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,142 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    You are more than welcome to use HF Amorphous panels... If the price and power output meets your needs--more power to you.

    I would hesitate to recommend that anyone build a 2kW array out of 15 watt panels--that is >130 panels mounted and wired. At roughly $60 each that is $7,800 for an array (without mounting hardware).

    You can use ~9x235 watt panels * $425 each for a $4,000 2kW array...

    Of course, 235 watt crystalline panels are still large and expensive to ship--So, again, whatever works best.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ArmyVetArmyVet Banned Posts: 20
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024
    BB. wrote: »
    You are more than welcome to use HF Amorphous panels... If the price and power output meets your needs--more power to you.

    I would hesitate to recommend that anyone build a 2kW array out of 15 watt panels--that is >130 panels mounted and wired. At roughly $60 each that is $7,800 for an array (without mounting hardware).

    You can use ~9x235 watt panels * $425 each for a $4,000 2kW array...

    Of course, 235 watt crystalline panels are still large and expensive to ship--So, again, whatever works best.

    -Bill

    Well actually we have managed to get the cost of these kits lower than sale prices/
    If your a smart shopper. You can get below $50 each. I think the lowest was around $40 with Coupons and stuffs get the kits for around $119 each. :D:D
    As of right now there is 2 guys using Very large array of these. One guy is using 145 of these panels. and Another in Florida using 300.
    And they are on racking system that they have built.
  • photovoltaicphotovoltaic Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Has anyone who has one of these Rogue controllers turned on a radio near it ? I am wondering how it is for RFI noise or interference on various radio frequencies .
  • MicJarMicJar Registered Users Posts: 4
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    No problems at all with the radio.
  • photovoltaicphotovoltaic Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024
    MicJar wrote: »
    No problems at all with the radio.

    Which radio band are you talking about ? FM ? The real test would be to try it across the whole AM band and see if there are any squeals, tones, or unusual noises where there are no radio stations. Thanks
  • firerescue712firerescue712 Solar Expert Posts: 93 ✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    When the pv panels were wired 12v, my fire scanner started picking up static when the Rogue's input wattage reached 75 watts and above. It would go away later in the day when the input power dropped below 75 watts. Once i rewired the panels in series, at 24v, the static stopped. Regardless, this is a great charge controller.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,142 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Interesting... Not sure why it does that, but still interesting.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    it seems that would mean the noise levels are governed by the input current handled in the cc.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,142 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    But 1/2 current is only, at best, a 6 db reduction in noise (relatively minor decrease in interference)--And since the voltage is doubling, that could increase that component of noise--increased switching currents in FETs).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Am certain that the "Fire Scanner" is an FM mode receiver, so the this is not really operating linearly (is that a word?). Prob is using a squelch, and the nature of the FM detector reduces the ability to receive RFI.

    And, as BB Bill indicates, there are a number of things happening in a CC that can affect the line-conducted emissions.

    To me, the current in the PV conductors might well be a very large factor in emissions levels.

    We do not know where the fire scanner was located, relative to the CC.

    Too many variables for guessing. But, here, the PV array, and the pv wiring is much longer than the battery leads. My wiring is all in metal pipe, but the PV array is a nice radiating antenna. Altho think that the CM Chokes (in my situation) help reduce the emissions from the PV array ... YMMV. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    yes, there are variables in many situations, but in general i seem to recall that higher input currents increase the emissivity of most if not all controllers by the nature of the beast.

    as to a scanner being fm i can say that many of their circuits, especially the detection circuit, are not always of a high quality and some detectors aren't much better than an off-frequency am detector.

    btw 6db doesn't sound like allot, but that represents a factor of 4x and is not insignificant. even 3db is a doubling.
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